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What do we do with contradictions in the Bible? Is God anti-Semitic? Is the star of David a satanic symbol? How does the Trinity work? Join Dr. Brown as he answers these questions and more!
Hour 1:
Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: We are in a dying, hurting world, and we have the answer to suffering and pain, the answer to sin and alienation from God–the gospel, in Jesus! Let’s present the message of Jesus boldly, and without shame, so people can literally go from death to life, from alienation to fellowship, from children of the devil to children of the living God, and be with Him forever!
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Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: We only have one life to live, to repay our debt of gratitude to the Lord, to prove out the promises, the call, and the standards of the Word, through the help and grace of the Spirit of God. Let’s go for it while we have breath, and show the world the real Jesus!
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Other Resources:
The Great Debate [DVD]: Dr. Michael Brown tackles the perennial issue of suffering and the problem of pain with leading New Testament scholar and agnostic Dr. Bart Ehrman at Ohio State University.
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60 Questions Christians Ask About Jewish Beliefs and Practices: Dr. Michael Brown answers sixty common questions about Jewish people and Jewish culture. He also addresses questions Christians have about their own relationship to the Old Testament Law.
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Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus vol. 4 by Dr. Brown: In this volume of the Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus series, Dr. Brown counters the arguments that the New Testament mistranslates, misuses, and misunderstands the Hebrew Scriptures, also addressing the objections that Jesus or Paul abolished the Law.
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Our Hands Are Stained with Blood by Dr. Brown: This shocking and painful book tells the tragic story of the “Church” and the Jewish people. It is a story every Christian must hear.
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Dan1el,
Here’s your chance to discuss the apparent contradictions in the scripture and show us why you think that the synoptics should not be considered as scripture.
Shalom
Hey Bo,
I’m glad to see you weigh in on a subject other than the Law of Moses. Great!
Dr. Brown,
I drop in now and then.
Shalom
The way the Trinity works is like a fishing lure.
It can be trolled or casted wherever fish like to hang out.
Contradictions we see in the Bible usually turn out to be nothing contradictory after we get more information which can come to us in many different ways.
We usually see contradictions because our understanding of things isn’t what it could be, but I don’t believe it’s always the case.
Sometimes I think I just have to wait and see what turns up later on, that might clear things up about something I had read. Usually that will happen.
As I heard the question about Adam I thought of how people back in the early part of history on this earth lived so many years, hundreds, and some many hundreds of years, and how it seems to me that people would tend to be either incredibly wise because of their experience in life, or incredibly evil.
It seems to me that Jesus is every bit as much the Father as he is God.
Now that may seem to cut across the doctrine of the Trinity as it has been explained by some, but I say this by comparison and by considering his divine nature.
Was it Jethro or Moses? Is there a contradiction?
Exodus 18
17 And Moses’ father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good.
18 Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone.
19 Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God–ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God:
20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.
21 Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:
22 And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee.
23 If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace.
24 So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said.
25 And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens.
26 And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves.
27 And Moses let his father in law depart; and he went his way into his own land.
Deuteronomy 1
9 And I spake unto you at that time, saying, I am not able to bear you myself alone:
10 The LORD your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.
11 (The LORD God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!)
12 How can I myself alone bear your cumbrance, and your burden, and your strife?
13 Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.
14 And ye answered me, and said, The thing which thou hast spoken is good for us to do.
15 So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes.
16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.
Was it YHWH, Moses, or the people? Is there a contradiction?
Numbers 13
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel: of every tribe of their fathers shall ye send a man, every one a ruler among them.
Numbers 32
8 Thus did your fathers, when I sent them from Kadeshbarnea to see the land.
Deuteronomy 1
21 Behold, the LORD thy God hath set the land before thee: go up and possess it, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath said unto thee; fear not, neither be discouraged.
22 And ye came near unto me every one of you, and said, We will send men before us, and they shall search us out the land, and bring us word again by what way we must go up, and into what cities we shall come.
23 And the saying pleased me well: and I took twelve men of you, one of a tribe:
24 And they turned and went up into the mountain, and came unto the valley of Eshcol, and searched it out.
Shalom
Dr. Brown,
Please answer this question, perhaps on next Friday’s “Q’s & A’s”:
Jesus, in John 14, promises that the Spirit WILL BE IN…
Does this mean He was NOT IN (otherwise, how is this “promise” something that was THEN ABOUT TO BE FULFILLED?) the prophets of old???
Is the (greek) “en”, in 1 Pet 1:11, to be understood as “on, among, with”, and not, “in, within”, then?
Wasn’t Mary filled with the Spirit?
Dear Dan1el,
I was hoping you would post on this thread. I was browsing through the LOF website and came across this article that I think will greatly benefit you.
Here you go: http://bible.org/seriespage/bible-inerrant-word-god
God bless you,
Eric.
Eric,
I do not agree with the article; HOWEVER, I believe that — just as the BLESSED LORD can teach a man out of everyday activities — He can teach out of words that are ABOUT Christ, especially written by men who were near to Him, and possibly heard Him first-hand.
However, I REFUSE to defend a non-truth in the name of preservation of a collection of writings (i.e.:New Testament).
———————-
1. There are irreconcilable differences in the Mat 24/Lk 21 end-time explanations — among other things.
2. In Luke, “Jesus” tells disciples to take up arms Luk 22:36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
Luk 22:37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.”
Luk 22:38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”
——————–
These are just two of a few irreconcilable differences in ESPECIALLY Luke’s account of what happened (I say “especially”, because he is the writer of Acts, which also contains errors — for instance, both Paul’s teaching: “with the heart one believes unto justification, and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation” cannot be correct TOGETHER WITH Act’s “the Spirit fell on the Gentiles while Peter was yet speaking” because they hadn’t even had a chance to speak with their mouth, so they couldn’t be saved; and the two accounts of Paul’s conversion AMONG other errors).
Now, I’m not sure if we will get in trouble for discussing this on this thread; I just desire/aim to live “John’s” Gospel, and the beautiful thing is that ALL of Paul’s doctrines are underlined and highlighted in “John’s” Gospel; with it, I am satisfied.
As far as the others (Mat/Mk/Lk/Acts), I am afraid they were NOT written under inspiration; yet, that is not to say they they are not useful (like anything else in life, we can learn from it — Jesus even learned & taught from observing the lives of birds, from observing trees, etc., etc., etc.,); or that they were written with some mal-intent.
However, it isn’t in Scripture that Jesus is found; they talk ABOUT HIM, but if I never RESORT TO HIM, they are all useless to me — whether inspired, or uninspired — I am learning.
Thanks & Kudos
BTW,
My question is NOT questioning infallibility; it is just trying to understand the doctrine thoroughly — most especially in order to evangelize to Muslims & Jews.
I have a trivia question for all those who are interested.
Who was the 1st person to acknowledge Jesus as Lord in the NT?
Dr Brown if you read this you can take a shot at it too.
Dan1el,
It is very sad to read these posts of yours in which you exalt your limited, human thinking powers over the holy Word of God. In other words, just because you find something to be impossible to reconcile, you claim it cannot be the Word of God. But who appointed you the judge and jury? I personally do not have the slightest problem with any of the texts you mentioned and find zero contradictions of any real nature in them.
What is clear to me is that either you still have not come to saving faith or, if you have, you are playing with dangerous fire. Either way, I’m very concerned for your soul.
Dan1el,
Do you find the passages that I quoted above to be contradictions that cannot be reconciled? Post # 6.
Shalom
Debbie,
Would it be Elizabeth?
Dan1el,
How do you know that those gentiles in Acts 10 did not believe with their hearts…or confess with their mouths? What if they already called upon the name of YHWH and then believed Peter’s message about Y’shua?
Acts 10
22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee…
30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.
33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him…
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word…
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
For sake of argument, let’s say that the gentiles in the verses above didn’t confess with their mouths…it is obvious that they believed in their hearts. There is no doctrine being taught in story in Acts. It is just the story of how YHWH Showed Peter, and the rest of the apostles, that gentiles were allowed into the the ecclesia.
Let’s say that Acts 10 and Romans 10 contradict. How do you know which to count as scripture and which to discard? Which ones of the following verses are we to believe and which do we reject? How do you know?
Romans 10
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
What about baptism…is it an option or manditory?
1 Peter 3
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
If women use birth control are they saved?
1 Timothy 2
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in
childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
If we believe and confess, but do not love the truth are we saved?
2 Thessalonians 2
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Is it only by faith and no confession?
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Is it the name of YHWH or Y’shua that we are to call upon?
Acts 4
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name (Y’shua) under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Romans 10
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the YHWH shall be saved.
Oops we are back to Romans 10. Does Paul contradict himself just 3 verses down from Romans 10:10?
Shalom
Debbie Fraser,
I think that it was John while in Elizabeth’s womb.
Shalom
ANSWER….It was Elizabeth.
However… John was the 1st to worship Jesus.
Luke 1:43
39 At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, 40 where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Tom won the GOLD STAR!!!! 🙂
BO, You were close. 🙂
Bo gets a half of a gold star. LOL
Tom,
I told you I was not up to your caliber.
Shalom
Dr. Brown,
Firstly, those texts are SO problematic — and, with all due respect, your “defense” of Matthew 24’s problematic usage of Daniel’s prophecy with the Rabbi was **lacking**: obviously it is talking about the RETURN of Jesus; NOT His inauguration, but you have to twist the meanings around in order to make it make sense.
Secondly, *anyone* can observe Matthew 24 with Luke 21 and see the inconsistencies.
Nwo, I am glad I have someone like you concerned for my soul — your prayers are needed : I’ve already seen you in the spirit; and I know you are truly devoted to the Lord — however, there isn’t a singular passage you can cite that says I must believe in that book: your “belief” that I must believe the book is, therefore, “un-Scriptural”. Who says I have to believe in this this “*NT*” to be a “believer in *Christ*”? Doesn’t 1 Th 5:21 say to “test all things”, and keep only the “good”? I tested things, found them wanting, and moved on.
Part of the basis on why I don’t believe in the NT 100% is that Jude 14 quotes Enoch; however, Enoch is not in the “Bible” — why? Why does the “Bible” — if it is “complete” — cite “extra-biblical” sources?
ANSWER: The “Bible” is a compilation of writings; decisions were made about which writings should be left out, and which writings should be included: it did not come down from Heaven, from God; it is not infallible. I see errors, and I call it as I see it.
Now, I don’t need to defend that *compilation of writings* in order to defend my *faith*; I don’t wish to twist words around (in order to make things make sense) in the name of defending that collection of letters — this is concerning “N.T.” texts, only.
I have utmost respect for you and the grace in your life, Dr. Brown; however, I do not agree with you 100%. There is no reason I should defend those texts.
If I lost Mt/Mk/Lk & Acts, I would lose NOTHING in the way of salvation/overcoming doctrine; a man can put Paul’s writings and John’s Gospel together, and have every doctrine necessary for salvation. Besides this, Jesus is not in the Bible; those words are ABOUT Christ; but, they are NOT Christ.
Dan1el,
How do you deal with the obvious contradictions between Paul and John, Paul and Peter, Paul and James, or even Paul and Paul. Dr. Brown is a seasoned saint and has much good fruit. He is concerned for your salvation. We do not know what fruit you have. Dr. Brown has studied much and has come to his conclusions by much prayer. How can you dare to disagree with him. He agrees with me. Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses let everything be established 🙂
How about answering my posts above. We need to know how to solve the contradictions or we need to know for sure that they can’t be solved so we know what is and isn’t scripture.
Shalom
Dr. Brown,
I think it is better for me to not talk about this until I am stronger in my walk with the Lord; I disagree with you on this, BUT it is more important for me to focus on my walk with the Lord than to argue about this, if it is affecting my walk with the Lord.
It is important for the person with the stronger walk in the Lord to have authority in words — and your walk is stronger than mine; so, we will talk about it at another time, God-willing.
Dr. Mike Brown,
Please note that I did not bring the topic up; I asked a question about doctrine in post 7, only, and I look forward to the reply from your side.
Dan1el,
I think that you are ignoring my posts. If you do not have the maturity to discuss the a topic, isn’t it better to take a humble stance to start with, instead of making such bold declarations. You certainly raked me over the coals on believers and the law of Moses, acting as if you were an authority, and I see that you have taken on Anthony Buzzard on the “The Preexistence of the Son” thread in a tone of authority concerning what is scripture. Now that the tables have turned, it appears that you taking the easy way out.
You would do well to take on this discussion and learn from those that have investigated the truth in this matter. Why not start with the simple challenge in post 6, then move on to answer post 15. If you are unwilling to do so, it would behoove you to tone down your posts quite a bit.
If your walk with Messiah can not handle the truth of scripture or you think that you are the judge of what is scripture, you are in the danger that Dr. Brown suggested. We are told to receive those that are weak in the faith, but not to doubtful disputations…this is not one of those doubtful things…it is extremely important. We cannot agree to disagree. If you cannot except the whole truth, it will undoubtedly shipwreck your faith in the future. I have seen it happen many, many times.
If you do not accept the synoptics and Acts, you will proceed to rejecting other scriptures…if you haven’t already. If you look closely for yourself, instead of receiving the evil reports of some so called experts, you will find that the apparent contradictions are explainable. If you continue in this doubting, you will find hundreds and thousands of contradictions in the scripture you do accept now…and you will most likely throw the whole Bible out in the end. If this does not happen, you will persist in being the judge of right and wrong (eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) and being your own elohim. The end of that is not good at all.
I give you this stern warning so that you will understand the gravity of the situation and so that you can recover yourself from this snare before it tightens…to the point of no escape. May YHWH give you the humility and strength to open your heart to some older brethren that can help you in this time of need.
Shalom
Dan1el,
That’s the whole point I’m making. As you set yourself up as the judge over God’s Word, it IS affecting your walk with the Lord, and that’s what concerns me — for your sake.
Dr. Brown,
When you say that I exalt my limited human thinking powers above the “Word of God”, it hurts, because I would never say such a thing about Deuteronomy, for instance; but, I have every right (in my estimation) to “put to the test” these “NT” “Scriptures”, which are “Johnny-come-latelies”, and some of them lack power and integrity that is present in the “OT”: I assure you, I would never exalt my human understanding above (what I believe is the) ACTUAL Word of God [OT & some of the NT]; but, you and I disagree on what exactly “the Word of God” is.
I would like to RECEIVE from the Word; not “exalt” my “limited understanding” — which, you are correct: my understanding truly IS utterly limited, even to the point of WORTHLESSNESS [FOR CERTAIN, I know that only God gives any single worthwhile thought/understanding]; and that only God gives any single worthwhile [and precious] thought/understanding.
Just felt the need to express how your words impacted.
Dr. Brown,
I went to hell many years ago for disobeying Jesus; it had nothing to do with Scriptures — actually, I knew the Lord face-to-face, and I didn’t want to obey something He told me, so I started reading the Bible to “find out God’s will”, being self-deceived into thinking that I “wanted to know God’s will”, when I already knew it, apart from reading that book.
I am sorry.
About things that may appear to be contraditions in the Bible, I know of a few things that no one yet has been able to explain in any way that I can receive (being as honest and real as I can attempt to be), but those things are so few compared to all the wisdom of God that brings me to salvation in Christ.
Those things are like a cup of water compared to a lake to me.
But let’s remember how we need the scriptures to help us understand the scriptures.
Ecc 3:1 says to everything belongs a season.
Who knows the season of a thing but God the Father, Jesus, and the holy Spirit, and to those God reveals it to, through Jesus Christ?
Can there possibly be a season to take up a sword?
If there is, then isn’t there also a time to lay it down, and who knows these things but Jesus, God, and the holy Spirit, or someone that God reveals it to by Jesus Christ?
Who is it that is in charge of the seasons of God?
Isn’t it Jesus?
Isn’t Jesus the Lord over it all? Doesn’t he have the keys to the entire kingdom which is his?
Who will tell Jesus what the word of God is? None of us, though I trust Jesus gets the will of God
from the Father himself.
Who’s in charge of the meaning of a poem? Isn’t it the poet, and yet many poets may tell you they
might not even know exactly the depth of what they said. They might not even know the meaning of what they wrote.
Does God inspire poets? I believe that he does. (But let’s not believe that all of them are inspired of God all the time)
I believe the Word of God as if first came into this world was inspired of God, and I have no idea how many times it was copied, transcribed, transliteralted (I’m not even sure of exactly what all that even means) transponded, (I better look that one up) or whatever. (How about transported, transpired?… reminds me of the garden.., transmitted, transfigured…remind you of anything? … transcended…who knows what all men did with it, except it seems to me that I have seen myself mar it to no end at times, and I wish I hadn’t.
But when it was first given to us, I believe it was perfect.
Let’s let the Father, Jesus, and the holy Spirit be the interpreters of it, and we the ones who attempt to follow.
Will we be ready to receive a word from the Lord when it comes to us in a way… or through another person when it comes?
I was just like one of the foolish virgins, for the Word came in a word and I wasn’t ready. I sat there wondering how it could fit something I had read.
The others, they were ready. They didn’t spend time wondering. They simply received and obeyed.
Jesus is in charge, over all of the word of God to us. He knows what it means, is to mean, and when it means this or that. He knows when to give a word to do this, and when to give the word to not do exactly what he once said to do.
Will we be ready?
(the point is that my walk is affected by my personal obedience/disobedience and allegiance, or lack of loyalty, to JESUS, who tells me the things I need to do: things which the Bible-reading/knowledge can CONFIRM, but CANNOT REPLACE nor can reading SATISFY the DEMANDS of God)
Dr. Brown,
I don’t want to make trouble on your board; I just asked a simple question to begin with (having to do with the Spirit’s entrance into vs. onto, etc.,). I don’t want any problems or to cause any trouble, so I will just refrain from talking about the subject.
Dan1el,
My only goal is to help you, so the most important thing is not what you do or don’t post here — it is no trouble at all — but what you think and believe. We are here to help you, not hurt you! That being said, it’s probably best to work things through with mature believers in your region, as I previously suggested. Again, I only want to see you strong in the Lord.
Dr. Brown,
I question your motives 0%; thanks for everything.
I’m sorry for every trouble I’ve caused, and I am grateful for your care for the sheep. You are a devoted man of God; I know that. I differ with you about a few things — but those differences don’t even deserve attention, in the light of the good fruit you bear. I will work it out on my own and with believers in my region, according to your word.
Once again, I apologize for any disruption; I believe in what you teach (99.9%), and my friends make fun of me for talking about what “Dr. Brown” said. You have done nothing averse to me; only stirred me and convicted me.
(because I talk about “Dr. Brown” so much)
When I think of Jesus reminding his disciples that the Spirit of God was presently dwelling with them, I wonder if they related Jesus to the manifest presence of the holy Spirit, something they knew was always with Jesus, and he being something in this world they could actually touch.
It seems the more liberty I give the Word of God, the more free I become.
Dan1el,
Can I expect this shunning to continue? It seems a shame that you can be so intent on dishing out controversy and so adverse to dealing with it once it comes your way. You were so vocal on other threads about your view of what is not scripture, but when the topic comes up and it can be discussed in detail, you are strangely coy. We used to say, “man up.”
Shalom
Eliyahu Moshiach,
Concerning our last dialogue, I have posted here:
http://www.lineoffireradio.com/2009/03/11/march-11-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-61969
Shalom
Howdy y’all,
It would seem to me that anyone that has come to the conclusion that some of the Bible is not scripture, has been listening to a man. And that man is probably a man that wants attention drawn to himself and his “great ideas.” It is a man that wants worship, though he will tell you that he doesn’t. He is pumped up by knowing that people listen to him and his “great ideas.”
I have never known a person that started rejecting portions of the Bible that wasn’t following a man instead of his creator. I never met a man that was doing this that didn’t think that he was following his creator. I never met a man that was doing this that really tried to see how the differences could be matched up. These men always seem to want to have a reason to stand above the Bible instead of bowing their knees in submission to everything it says. It is probably a spiritual problem and not really a mind problem.
This has been my observation. There may be other reasons that this kind of thing happens. I can only testify to what I have seen. I first came across this while talking to a young Romanian ashiest. He was taught by his teachers that the Bible was full of contradictions and could be trusted. I was shocked. I next ran into this idea when talking to a sacred namer. He rejected Paul because he thought that Paul was teaching things that were contrary to the Old Testament. He ended up rejecting his savior. I was shocked.
Now this is the first time that I have heard of a Christian rejecting the Gospels. How can this be possible? How can a Christian reject the testimony of those that walked the closest to their savior? What will be the end of the man that does this?
The atheist was always a nonbeliever. He believed his teachers instead. The sacred namer became a nonbeliever in the savior. He believed someone that could not see the harmony of Paul and Moses. This new idea will probably end the same as the others. It will end with people believing a man and rejecting their Creator’s words to their own destruction.
I guess the devil is still playing his old game. He is still saying, “Has God really said.” It always ends the same. Man always decides that he is smarter than his creator. It is so sad. I guess we still have to learn by the school of hard knocks instead of simply accepting our Creator’s loving words to us. It really is so sad.
Ray,
With a few caveats, I like your post #28.
Shalom
Dying to self is a thing of glory. From heaven’s perspective it’s a wonderful thing. Angels rejoice. It’s good even though vultures come. God transforms by the power of the cross.
It was the Lord’s passion to die for those that were killing him.
We take up our Bibles not knowing what it’s going to cost us or what troubles lay ahead. Yet we have hope for the final destination, the end of ourself and the beginning of a new creation.
Isn’t this world just a pattern of the real thing?
The future for the Christian is more real up ahead, and it’s brighter too.
Sometimes the things of God seem like a contradiction. The ways of God are so much higher than our own.
My thoughts of the preservation of the NT.
The NT, all of it, is legit, but it hasn’t been preserved 100%, but about 98%, which is amazing accuracy! But it does really grieve my spirit where people play games with the text to force it to fit with their pre-existing beliefs. e.g.
1. ‘Thus he declared all foods clean’ is not in the original.
2. ‘The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat, therefore whatever he tells you, do and observe’, ‘he’ is not in the original, but they.
3. ‘…that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing…’, ‘we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing’ is not in the original.
I could go on and on. People deliberately play games with the text just to force it to conform with their theology.
‘But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing’ was originally in Acts 15 as a response to a (false) requirement to be circumcised and keep the law as a means of salvation, but what some editors did is lift that phrase and stick it into Acts 21 where it doesn’t belong and juxtapose it against the Apostle Paul’s walking orderly and keeping the law in order to make it seem that Gentiles walking orderly and keeping the law is against scripture.
I’m not debating the observance of the law here, just documenting places where people play games with the text to support their position.
A thought for Dan1el, with love.
As soon as you start doubting, you’ve fallen right into the trap the serpent laid out for Eve. Doubt, instead of simple trusting faith, like Adam and Eve had in God before the serpent talked to them. Did God really say? Did God really write this NT book through such and such? Can you really trust it?
Personally I would rather accept some non-scripture along with scripture, than reject too much and reject non-scripture along with scripture, thus missing out on some important scripture.
It’s no accident that the bookstores are filled with books attacking the validity of the New Testament and Christ as a historic person, yet these same bookstores are filled with all sorts of New Age rubbish and heretical books about Yeshua.
Salvation is found in Yeshua and the NT is the best source document closest to the people, place and time to teach us about him. Don’t fall into a trap for your mind.
Daniel,
I’m going to throw you over a proverb. Catch it if you can.
Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart, lean not on your own understanding, In ALL your ways acknowledge Him and HE WILL direct your paths.
The Holy Spirit will guide you to ALL truth.
I do want to add this to the conversation of understanding the bible.
I hear teachings that say when one dies their body, soul, and spirit all remain in the grave until the Coming of the Lord. These teachers give valid scripture verses to back up what they teach.
Now I believe and I know there are others that believe this too. That when one dies, their body goes into the grave but yet their spirit and soul leave the body and enter either Heaven or Hell. There are valid scripture verses to back this belief up too.
Now I can go on and say this a contradiction of the Bible, of the Word of God. You got 2 different valid scriptures saying 2 different explanation of death.
Yet I will not call it a contradiction, I will describe this of not fully understanding.
My question is why does the bible given 2 different messages on death, on where we go when we die? I believe whole heartedly that we in Christ do go to Heaven when we die.
But others believe the opposite, How do we know who is right?
Truly appreciate an solid answer.
TY
I believe the holy Scriptures are purposely written in such a way that being led by the holy Spirit is the only way to gain understanding of it.
It is also true that because it is spiritual in nature and character, because of the fall of man, a man must be born of the spirit to gain understanding of it.
That’s what the scripture says isn’t it?
I believe there’s a sense in which one dies and goes to the grave where there is no consciousness, and there is also a sense in which he goes into the presence of God, where there is judgment, justice, instruction, and communication, in preparation for a final judgment, if indeed his being judged (delivered?, or condemnmed?)
of God is not yet complete at that time.
How many times will a man appear before the throne of God, does the Bible say? How many judgments of God are there? Is there only one?
So much I don’t know.
And what of the soul of man? Is there a part of his soul that is of the world while another part of it is joined to the Lord?
What can divide all this for us but the Word of God itself?
“Doubt, instead of simple trusting faith, like Adam and Eve had in God before the serpent talked to them.” – David Roberts
If only they had doubted the serpent…you make it sound like doubt can only be evil.
Since the serpent created doubt in their minds, they should’ve doubted the serpent and spoke to God about what he said.
“Personally I would rather accept some non-scripture along with scripture, than reject too much and reject non-scripture along with scripture, thus missing out on some important scripture.” – David Roberts
Neither adding to nor subtracting from the truth is to be preferred – either way you could be in a bad state. So, personally I would rather accept the truth and nothing but the truth – and that’s why I plan on examining Scripture thoroughly before I jump into it. If everyone accepts what everyone else says then any problems are sure to continue on too long.
“Don’t fall into a trap for your mind.” – David Roberts
Do examine any teaching carefully. Don’t just listen to anything anyone will tell you – even if it was written down long ago. Not only do people differ about what is Scripture…even the Scripture they agree on is interpreted in wildly different ways. The massive complexity and loose wording of Scripture places an enormous weight upon everyone and allows for a huge variety of allegedly ‘true’ interpretations/denominations.