Dr. Brown Critiques the “With God On Our Side,” Anti-Christian Zionist Video (with input from Israel)

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What’s wrong with the anti-Christian Zionist video, “With God On Our Side?”  How important are Israel and the Jewish people, really?   Join Dr. Brown for a very important show dealing with anti-Israel sentiment.

Hour 1:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: If we are going to claim to speak the truth, we need to be very careful to present the truth accurately and give both sides of the story, to do our best not to skew things in either direction.  Sadly, the video “With God On Our Side” very seriously fails to do this.  I’m hoping for something better!

Hour 2:

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: We all agree that we need to be on God’s side:  on the side of justice and peace.  Ultimately, I would say this:  There are clear promises that God will redeem Israel and the Jewish People.  At the very least, stand in faith for that!

Featured Resources:

Separation of Church and State with Joseph Infranco [MP3 series],  and  It’s Time to Rock the Boat with Michael L. Brown [MP3 series] !

Synopsis from “With God On Our Side” Website:

With God On Our Side takes a look at the theology of Christian Zionism, which teaches that because the Jews are God’s chosen people, they have a divine right to the land of Israel. Aspects of this belief system lead some Christians in the West to give uncritical support to Israeli government policies, even those that privilege Jews at the expense of Palestinians, leading to great suffering among Muslim and Christian Palestinians alike and threatening Israel’s security as a whole.

This film demonstrates that there is a biblical alternative for Christians who want to love and support the people of Israel, a theology that doesn’t favor one people group over another but instead promotes peace and reconciliation for both Jews and Palestinians.”

Other Resources:

Line of Fire Broadcast:  Sorting Out the Middle East Conflict

Join Dr. Brown as he unfolds the sources of the continuing conflict between Israel and the surrounding Arab world, and the importance of supporting Israel against its enemies.

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: God said plainly through the prophets that as long as heaven and earth existed, as long as the universe was still standing and the sun and moon were still shining, His promise to Israel will endure.  Israel will endure as a nation.  I take God seriously.

Line Of Fire Broadcast:  Israel: A Prophecy Fulfilled?

Is Israel today really a fulfillment of prophecy, or is this a sentimental perspective without scriptural foundations?

Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: God has sworn an oath, giving unconditional promises to Israel, which reflect the very nature of God.  God, who has given those promises, will not break them.  Israel shall be saved and fully restored!

Stand With Israel [mp3 Series]

INCLUDES: 1.) Israel Shall Be Saved    2.) Intercession, Israel, & Miracles    3.) A Baptism of Tears for Israel    4.) Israel and the Last Days    5.) The Rising Tide of Anti-Semitism    6.) Are the Rabbis Right?   (Brown vs. Singer Debate)    7.) Who is Jesus? Part 1    8.) Who is Jesus? Part 2

From the Lions of Tsavo to the Lion of Judah Online Article by Victor Sharpe:

This is the story of a remarkable Christian Zionist who did so much for the cause of Zion in the early years of the 20th century.

John Henry Patterson was the product of an Anglo-Irish family. He was born on November 10, 1867 in Ireland to a Protestant family and died in 1947 – one year before the rebirth of the Jewish State of Israel. Following the family’s military tradition, he joined the British army and served with the 16th Lancers in Lucknow, India. He was sent in 1898 to East Africa where he was engaged in building a railway bridge at Tsavo. The African workers were being terrorized by man eating lions and Patterson was successful in restoring order and killing the marauding lions. He later wrote a book about his exploits titled, The Man-Eaters of Tsavo. […]

South Africans Weigh In on “Israeli Apartheid Week” Online Article by John Paul

For seven years now in various universities across the globe, there have been meetings and conferences linking Israel to the actions and policies of Apartheid South Africa (usually held the first two weeks of March).  For a succinct description please note CAMERA’s portrayal of these events.

“They come as part of “Israeli Apartheid Week,” a series of lectures, exhibits and events that single out Israel for fierce attack. Students are told the Jewish state is, by nature, a racist, colonial and oppressive state. They are told Israel should be boycotted, and even destroyed. They are told this by ideologues who distort facts about the country while ignoring genuine oppression in the Middle East and across the world. […]

Has God Forsaken His People? Online Article by Dr. Brown:

Some things are non-negotiable. God’s covenant with Israel is one of them. How could He have made Himself more clear?

He gave His oath to Abram, and reiterated it six more times to Abraham, to his son Isaac and to his grandson Jacob. On one occasion, “When God made His promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for Him to swear by, He swore by Himself” (Heb. 6:13).

Why did God speak so decisively? It was because He “wanted to make the unchanging nature of His purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, [so] He confirmed[…]

How To Pray For Israel And The Middle East online article by Dr. Brown:

As there is a temporary break in the hostilities in the Middle East, now is a good time to stop and ask: How should we pray for crises such as this? Should we pray for God to protect the Jewish people from terrorist attacks and for Israel’s military efforts to succeed, or should we pray that God will have mercy on everyone involved – Muslim and Jew alike – bringing a permanent end to all bloodshed? Should we pray for lasting peace to come to the region, or should we pray for the Lord’s […]


43 Comments
  1. Dear Dr.Brown and Dear Reader,

    I believe that we need to take ALL of the Scriptures seriously into orderly consideration and realize who true Israel of God is as both sides of this terrible conflict suffered much and both have done much wrong as well and they both have a right to peace and decent lives as human beings. There is no point on placing percentages of wrong done for it varies depending on a specific actions and agenda. The bottom line is both sides are guilty of terrible wrongs including innocent blood shed profusely and needlessly.

    New Testament is the final and full authoritative and infallible interpreter of Old Testament as they are both breathed in and inspired by the same God yet done so in sequence, harmony and progressive light of revelation and done so in purpose and order established by God Himself. Therefore promises given to Abraham in Genesis 12 and Genesis 17 cannot and should not be read out APART of what New Testament says about them and New Testament says MUCH about them for now the promises of inheritance given in Genesis 12 and 17 are infallibly interpreted by Holy Spirit inspired Apostle of the Lord of Glory as applying to THE WHOLE WORLD and not just to a specific land mass in a middle east as one would conclude from reading Genesis 12 and 17 only…

    “For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of THE WORLD was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.”

    ~ Roman 4:13 NASB

    Something to think about. Is it not? This is only biblical and by far having absolutely nothing to do with so called “replacement theology” which is simply a bogeyman used to scare Christians (not Roman Catholicism as that is a real tendency) and sadly many times a bludgeon used by so called “Christian Zionists” and I use that term simply as a theological orientation term only. I think it will be useful for a reader to hear from our Jewish brethren who do not call themselves “Messianic” and do so for important reasons:

    The article from Jewish brethren: “NOT REPLACEMENT…EXPANSION!”: http://www.chaim.org/xpansion.htm

    I am ending with this quote from the Word of God which amongst many other places in New Testament sheds much and more light on what was established in Old Testament for in the end I must repeat after Augustine that In Old Testament new one is contained and in New Testament old one is explained. God bless you all and study of His Word.

    “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel. nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your 1descendants will be named.”
    That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. ”

    ~ Romans 9:6-8 NASB

    SDG

  2. Christophe, thanks for your post, but alas, you need to keep reading Romans 9 right through Romans 11, ending with these words of warning and promise: Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
    (Rom 11:25-29 ESV)

    The Israel of God in Scripture is none other than Jewish believers in Yeshua, the remnant awaiting the fulfillment of God’s promises to the rest of the Israel, still loved of God because of His irrevocable promises to the patriarchs, promises which include the land of Israel today.

    Christophe, please remember that any reading of the NT that changes or vitiates the meaning of the OT is a misreading and nothing more. And never forget Jer 31:35-17 and a host of other verses. The promises remain true and will be fulfilled, as surely as God is God.

  3. Christophe,

    One further comment/question. You state, “The bottom line is both sides are guilty of terrible wrongs including innocent blood shed profusely and needlessly.” Could you give me some documented examples of Israel profusely and needlessly shedding innocent blood?

  4. What possibly about that synopsis do you not agree with? You seem to be in line with John Hagee and other radicals. I don’t agree with all of the theological conclusions of Mr. Speakman -but respect the human rights and conclusions of the film.

  5. “Christophe, please remember that any reading of the NT that changes or vitiates the meaning of the OT is a misreading and nothing more.”

    Dear Dr.Brown and Dear Reader,

    Hmmm Dr.Brown then I guess Apostle Paul would have to stand corrected by you… Please forgive me but I am not being sarcastic but only logical. Why do I say this? For His words DO BRING more information and in depth meaning to Genesis 12 and 17 promises.

    ““For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of THE WORLD was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.”

    ~ Roman 4:13 NASB

    “…heir of THE WORLD…” from the inspired pen of Apostle Paul gives a perfectly harmonized and a fuller meaning to details of the promise given to Abraham in Genesis 17:3 as in “…You will be the father of a multitude of nations”. Does it not? Are you telling me that THE WORLD is in details of Genesis 12 and 17 promises when it is not? Then inspired Apostle Paul DOES BRING A NEW INFORMATION which you simply are not willing to account for and interact with. Are you denying Christoapostolic view of the Scriptures? Are writings of Apostle Paul not authoritative and infallible? I do not think you want to say that yet that is how it comes out.

    This above quote from Romans 4:13 is expounding precisely the very same point repeated by the Holy Spirit through the same Apostle in other parts of New Testament:

    ” so then, understand that those who believe are the sons of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the gospel to Abraham ahead of time, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.”
    ~ Galatians 3:7-8 NET

    “The Israel of God in Scripture is none other than Jewish believers in Yeshua…”

    Nope Dr.Brown the ONLY TRUE ISRAEL OF GOD is none else but Jesus Christ only and by propitiation of His blood and application of His righteousness by faith all those who are found in Him and that includes believers on both sides of the Cross.
    Look at the Words of Scripture which confirm just that and which by the way are another great example of Christoapostolic view of the Scripture where GREATER (because of Jesus) light of New Testament explains authoritatively and completely the light of Old Testament:

    “He stayed there until Herod died. In this way what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet was fulfilled: “I called my Son out of Egypt.”

    ~ Matthew 2:15 NET

    which explains fully and bring a NEW DIMENSION to Old Testament prophecy of:

    “When Israel was a young man, I loved him like a son,and I summoned my son out of Egypt.”

    ~ Hosea 11:1 NET

    Since Christ is the TRUE ISRAEL only this is why Paul said and could say this:

    “And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to the promise.”
    ~ Galatians 3:29 NET

    Could it be stated more clearly and authoritatively? I do not think so Dr.Brown. Our brethren from chaim.org articulated it so well and so thoroughly and you have not interacted with it and not thought through for you write as if none of that was addressed. Also the reminder of your remarks is clearly addressed in the article to which I have provided a link and therefore for the time, space and consistency space my further comments about that are needless.

    “Could you give me some documented examples of Israel profusely and needlessly shedding innocent blood?”

    Sure thing Dr.Brown. There is plenty of documentation and publications about just that as is about the crimes of the other side. That means books and reports and research papers. The real question is will you allow yourself to accept it despite your emotional, heritage and tradition bias? For that is extremely hard thing to do as one will seek all kinds of conspiracy theories and signs of prejudice first before one will truly give up what was so dear an important to him like his previous view on the matter and allow himself to see more freely. Especially if this is a [art of his heritage and identity.
    That is a real question Dr.Brown and not the lack of evidence. So regarding your request. How about 452 page report of United Nations and its Human Rights Council completed less than 2 years ago titled:
    “HUMAN RIGHTS IN PALESTINE AND OTHER OCCUPIED ARAB TERRITORIES. Report of the United Nations Fact-Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict” Of course you can dismiss it a priori but do you have enough evidence to do so factually and to do so an toto??? That is a second question…
    Here is the report:

    http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48.pdf

    Blessings.

    SDG

  6. Dear Christophe,

    I find it interesting that Walid Shoebat, who used to proudly identify as a “Palestinian”, now has a website almost entirely dedicated to pro-Israel and even has Jews working for him! Do you think he may have some insight we do not have? He grew up in Bethlehem, Israel born a Muslim and a very proud Palestinian, now he exposes the “palestinian injustices” and much more, he is now an American citizen and a follower of Yeshua.

    So when you quote “human right” organizations and “palestinian”, it really strikes me and I wonder if you know who Walid Sheobat is and know about his work?

  7. Christophe,

    Your post is one of the most remarkable I have seen in terms of misunderstanding the NT’s use of the OT.

    First, verses like Hos 11:1, cited in Matt 2:15, do not lost their meaning once cited. Rather, as virtually all Matthean interpreters recognize, he was simply saying, “As it happened with Israel, God’s son, so it happened with Jesus, God’s Son.” That’s it! In fact, Hos 11:1 is not even a prophecy (see the verse in context).

    Second, Paul does not hint in any way in Gal 6:l6 that “the Israel of God” is first and foremost Jesus. That is exegetical nonsense. And the “kai” in the verse, as recognized in most translations, does mean “and,” hence Paul is blessing Jews who believe in Jesus under that heading. In fact, in Rom 11, when speaking directly about Israel, he addresses Gentile believers as Gentiles, rather than calling them Israel — because they are not.

    Honestly, there’s no much to refute in your posts that it’s hard for me to know where to start.

    As for the UN Report, I hope you realize that Judge Goldstone, who was largely responsible for the anti-Israeli report on the war in Gaza has since repudiated his findings and recognized the primary guilt of Hamas rather than Israel. It seems to me that you are buying into anti-Israel sentiments (both in terms of reading the Word and viewing contemporary events) hook, line, and sinker, and I truly wonder what you have read on the other side of the issue.

  8. Don, did you listen to the show? The video is fraught with historical and factual error, emotional manipulation, and serious theological error — and I am not a dispensationalist. It is nothing less than an anti-Israel hit piece, and in the name of justice, peace, and reconciliation at that. My invitation to Porter Speakman and Stephen Sizer to join me on the air remains open, and I said on the show that my assumption is that the film was produced in ignorance rather than in willful deception or malice.

  9. “…and recognized the primary guilt of Hamas rather than Israel.”

    Dear Dr.Brown,

    Let me start with the back end of your post that is high on personal critique and low on substantiated and sequential discussion or critique of what was already quoted, particularly the Scriptures.
    Let me simply and logically point to you that NOWHERE have I stated that that the guilt is primarily on Israel side nor have I stated that it is primarily on Palestinian side…
    I stated that it is on BOTH sides and to various degrees depending of the action and agenda.

    PROOF:

    “… as both sides of this terrible conflict suffered much and both have done much wrong as well and they both have a right to peace and decent lives as human beings.
    There is no point on placing percentages of wrong done for it varies depending on a specific actions and agenda.
    The bottom line is both sides are guilty of terrible wrongs including innocent blood shed profusely and needlessly.”
    ~ Christophe

    Have you noticed above word BOTH which I used three times? If so why do you then imply PRIMARILY guilt??? I am stating guilt on both sides and state it consecutively while you want to turn it to something else
    i.e. whose fault it was first or whose fault it is more…That is a red herring Dr.Brown and not factual response to what I said for what I said was simply different…

    “Your post is one of the most remarkable I have seen in terms of misunderstanding the NT’s use of the OT. ”

    I think it is rather remarkable that you see it as remarkable for that view is nothing else but a historic, orthodox understanding of the structure of the Scripture and its Christoapostolic view and authority. It is Christ and His Apostles
    infallibly interpreting for Christians what Old Testament was about and is about and NOT the other way around. Perhaps you would like to see a proof for that from the mouth of the Lord of Glory? Here it is:

    “So he said to them, “You foolish people how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Wasn’t it necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and enter into his glory?”
    Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, HE INTERPRETED TO THEM the things written about himself in all the scriptures.”
    ~ Luke 24:25-26 NET

    ESV© 24:27 “And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, HE INTERPRETED TO THEM in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.”

    NASB© 24:27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, HE EXPLAINED TO THEM the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

    Now have you noticed that? He interpreted the Old Testament to them which is exactly what Paul does with promises given to Abraham in Genesis 12 and Genesis 17 and which is remarkably “remarkable” to you…
    Paul interprets Genesis 12 and 17. Matthew 2 interprets Hosea 11. Lord of Glory interprets ENTIRETY of Old Testament to His disciples yet you find it new and remarkable???
    How so? Is not the Lord of Glory the ULTIMATE INTERPRETER of Old Testament? Are His Apostles by the virtue of His teaching and authority not the same? Is not the rest of New Testament the same be the design
    and purpose of God and direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit??? The same goes for the Old Testament yet the intensity of the light of truth is so much greater in New Testament due to the direct teaching of the Lord of Glory ‘
    and Holy Spirit. So what is and who is truly remarkable here Dr.Brown???

    Additionally, I find it rather peculiar for you Dr.Brown to mostly disregard already quoted Scriptures and instead coming up with new ones leaving the others uninteracted and unaddressed… Wouldn’t it be beneficial and consistent to
    answer FIRST the arguments presented and based on quoted Romans 4:13, Galatians 3:7-8, Galatians 3:29 before venturing out to new texts like Galatians 6:16??? I think it would and I think you would agree but you have not done so.
    Your attention to “and” -“kai” in Galatians 6:16 proves that you have not understood argument made i.e. that CHRIST is the only true Israel and by extension of His righteousness through faith ALL THOSE WHO ARE FOUND IN HIM are as well True Israel.
    If you would understand that last part you would know that you are arguing besides the point made.

    You seem to present the same unwillingness to recognize other argument as far as Hos 11:1, cited and INTERPRETED in Matt 2:15 for nowhere have I stated that anything of the text “lost their meaning once cited”. Rather what I have stated was that:
    “GREATER (because of Jesus) light of New Testament explains authoritatively and completely the light of Old Testament.” That is a difference and this is a second instance when you either misread or misunderstand what I say or intentionally put words
    in my mouth after your assertion of “primarily guilt” versus my statement of guilt on BOTH sides of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. This is a bit troubling to see Dr.Brown.

    Finally as to who is true Israel and the APOSTOLIC UNDERSTANDING of that have you ever gave consideration to this text Dr.Brown?

    “For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers and sisters, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink.
    For they were all drinking from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.”
    ~ 1 Corinthians 10:1-4

    “Our fathers”??? Really? This is said by a Jew – Apostle Paul and who is he saying this to? Jews only or Jews exclusively? By no means. He is saying that to the Church of Corinth that might have and probably had Jews in it by it also had and predominately Gentiles yet those Gentiles are addressed as brothers and sisters and affirmed that they have the same fathers that Paul has and if that would not be enough those are the same FATHERS who went through the red sea and out of the Egypt. And who were they who went out of Egypt Dr.Brown???
    Yes you got it 🙂 Jews yet the same Jews according to Paul are FATHERS of Gentiles in the Church of Corinth. How is that possible Dr.Brown if not by the biblical truth of the Spiritual Israel? For I think you agree that Greek Gentiles could not possibly be of biological descendant of Jews who “passed through the sea”. Your assertion of ““The Israel of God in Scripture is none other than Jewish believers in Yeshua…” does not stand this and cannot explain this. So please do not disregard this and explain exegete it if your assertion is real. And if you in doubt to whom the words of “… brothers and sisters, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea…” were spoken look here at the address of the letter:

    ” From Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Sosthenes, our brother, 1:2 to the church of God that is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, and called to be saints, with all those in every place who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.”
    ~ 1 Corinthians 1:1-2 NET

    Please take your emotions, traditions and heritage aside Dr.Brown and allow yourself to see the text and allow yourself to see arguments made based on the text. It is so easily to paint the disputant with artificial colors only on order to avoid questions and arguments that can force you to rethink your position yet if truth is dear to you and I know it is then this is exactly what you need to do at least for the discussion consistency sake. Thank you and blessings to you and the study of the Word.

    SDG

  10. Dear Eric,

    I have no idea who Walid Shoebat is or what he does. I am not interested in diususing personal stories but Scripture and Scripture only. Dr. Brown asked for proof and I provided one. Of course that many things in this report are questionable but not all of them and the bottom line is than even with those questions it is plain to see that war crimes were and are committed by BOTH sides in this conflict. I am not arguing whose fault is bigger or primarily factor as Dr.Brown wants to change the discussion I am simply saying again that BOTH sides are guilty of blood of innocents and that includes children.

  11. Dr.Brown,

    “read my book” I think you agree that accessing the link is actually feasible and realistic and referring me to your book which I do not have and probably will not have is not. Having said that I have and I read your then trilogy “Answering Jewish Objections…”

  12. Christophe,

    Thanks for the kind words about my Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus series, and I do encourage you to read Our Hands Are Stained with Blood. It will answer many of the questions you raise here, and you surely can’t expect me to rewrite the book here for your sake.

    Also, from my reading of Fred Klett’s article (which you linked), you seem to go beyond what we wrote — but that’s just at first glance.

    With regard to your charges about BOTH sides of the conflict being equally guilty, I categorically deny that on every level, as discussed in the show today. As for my use of the word “primarily,” it was with reference to the UN report you cited. I was not trying to change the discussion but simply to correct erroneous comments you made.

    With regard to your reading of Scripture, you are going completely beyond anything the NT writers (or Jesus Himself) said or wrote, and it is absolutely erroneous to state that your interpretation follows the historic Orthodox, Christo-apostolic view. Hardly!

    Suffice it to say that your treatment of Hosea 11:1 is more than enough to disqualify the rest of your points, which I’d be happy to discuss with you on the air one day, since time always precludes me from interacting much on the blog here. The extreme nature of your statements, so got my attention, that I felt an initial statement of rebuttal was called for. In short, where Jesus says the OT speaks of Him, you take it to mean that it no longer speaks of the physical descendants of Israel; where a prophetic application is given to a text, you take it to mean the historical and contextual meaning of the text is no longer valid. If that was the case, your argument would be a self-defeating circle: Jesus pointed to the OT for validation, then turned around and said the validating text no longer meant what it originally said!

    Feel free to respond to my points here if you’re unable to call into the program, but please don’t be insulted if I don’t respond further to you here, since time simply won’t allow it.

    May the Lord’s grace and truth prevail in your heart and mine.

  13. I don’t see anything necessarily wrong when someone speaks of the whole Body of Christ as being the “Israel” of God, the one born of promise, though I’m sure (and can also prove) that the Bible speaks of Israel as being something somewhat different than that at times.

  14. In order for me as a Christian to be saved and fully restored, do I have to own land? I don’t own any land.

    Maybe it’s different for a group of people like Israel.

    There is an oath that God has sworn by himself, and it is because there is no one greater for him to swear by. (Hebrews 6:13,14)

    That oath I’m thinking of is in Jer 22:5. I think it’s a promise we should take just as seriously as Genesis 22:17.

    Will Israel be restored without doing Jer 22:3?

    And wasn’t that written for the benefit of all of us, whether Jew or Gentile?

  15. AS I was reading the article “Has God forsaken His People?” (Real Messiah.com) I came to the place where the Lord who brought Abram out of Ur of the Chalees (Genesis 15:7) to give Abram the land to inherit it, made a covenant with him by passing through the pieces while Abram was taken out of the ceremony by a deep sleep.

    Wasn’t this a one sided agreement, one that the Lord who blessed Abram, would be the party of, without any specific requirement on the part of Abram?

    And what about the fact that the land was taken from them, that they were taken out of the land by the judgment of the Lord God because of the sins of the people? (the captivity of Babylon)

    Is this speaking of the cross of Christ, the necessity of God paying the price for the sins of the people, sending the Lord who brought Abram out of Ur of the Chaldees… who was, and is God to him?

    I just wonder what the people (who were of Israel) thought of this covenant God made to Abram in Genesis 15, when they connected it to the expulsion from the land promised by that covenant which appeared to be clearly a one sided agreement.

  16. Dear Dr,Brown,

    “Suffice it to say that your treatment of Hosea 11:1 is more than enough to disqualify the rest of your points”

    🙂 And what is this “my treatment” of Hosea 11:1??? Matthew 2:15 that was repeatedly quoted in full length and if that is wrong then I rather stay with that “wrong” for that is The Word of God Sir. Besides, you have failed to indicate why is that wrong according to you. Unfortunately, such is the case with the rest of what you have offered Dr.Brown. I am sorry and I do not try to be mean in any way but you intentionally ignore biblical arguments quoted and defined and instead offer your broad opinions and general observations or references to your book published 19 years ago without a concrete interaction with concrete examples and concrete arguments offered at length for you. That simply will not do and will not suffice in terms of any factual interaction and discussion.

    I understand your time constraints as you can imagine I have some as well but I took time to provide Scriptural references that plainly DEBUNK your assertion that biological and believing Israel is what constitutes the true Israel of God such as for example last one out of many arguments provided and substantiated by the Word of God from 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 which clearly as day light disassembles your assertion about biology and faith defining true Israel. Yet just like the others you have simply ignored that one too… 🙂

    Dr.Brown I hope you take it the right way and in the spirit of humbleness. By no means I am right on everything and I am learning and I pray that I will be open to and receiving learning to my last dying breath but you are simply wrong and blinded by your Jewishness and your heritage and that is why you insists on something that is plainly against what the Word of God teaches.

    I am sure that you are a “better” Christian than I am if there is such a thing but you are not willing to go past that last remnant of your past. The Lord in His grace pulled you out of the darkness into the light and how marvelous that is. But you still allow some parts of your past as defined by creatures to paint some of His revelation in the colors that are more familiar and more comfortable to you.

    I can only hope and pray for you and for myself as well than we will be free of influence of man made traditions but particularly for you due to the position of your influence on others. Since for the most part you do not interact nor you even try to interact with arguments provided I do not see any further point of this conversation and as far as calling to the program I know perfectly well the leverage and control the programer has over the caller and given your visible strategy and avoidance as far what I presented to you here so far I can only expect more of that on the show during the call and henceforth I respectfully yet logically decline your offer.

    God bless you brother and God bless the study of His Word.

  17. Christophe, you err seriously and make a judgment you ought not to make when you write, “But you still allow some parts of your past as defined by creatures to paint some of His revelation in the colors that are more familiar and more comfortable to you.” You know not of what you write, you know little or nothing about my personal journey, and you’d best stick with scriptures and avoid erroneous personal reflections like this. Grace to you!

  18. @Dr. Brown,

    You know, I thought the name of your show was about the line to ring to get the fire of God, the line of fire, but if you continue to stand for Israel and for Godly values, it seems you’re in the line of fire. They’ve got you in the crosshairs of personal attacks and more. Hang in there. My wife and I are in the middle of reading through your five volume series to answering Jewish objections and are getting mightily blessed.

  19. “You know not of what you write, you know little or nothing about my personal journey, and you’d best stick with scriptures and avoid erroneous personal reflections like this.”

    Dear Dr.Brown,

    🙂

    Looks like nobody knows anything unless they agree with you… and this has nothing to do with your “personal journey” either but everything with traditions you hold that bent your perception of the matter. Well let me present to you well known teachers and men of God who say exactly same thing that I say and they actually substantiate that based on the Word of God which you do not do talking instead about a lack of time when you surely could address at least once seriously and in length arguments presented to you and substantiated by the Word of God such as presented by me arguments from Romans 4:13, Romans 9:6-8, Galatians 3:7-8, Galatians 3:29 or 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 and there is many more.You have avoided any meaningful interaction with those Scriptures and instead offered what you think about me and my understanding plus general comments and broad opinions that all together amount to nothing else but evasion and combination of subtle ad hominems and red herrings. Pretty sad yet so typical to see that.

    Here is two texts by two men of God our brothers in Christ yet they must know nothing either because they do have and do hold Christoapostolic understanding of the Word which you do not do as they are not taken hostage by cultural and national heritage that skews they perception of who true Israel is and what promise of land truly represents. In short they disagree with you and they are amongst many others as well… I guess I am in good company Dr.Brown… We all know nothing… 🙂

    Blessings to you and may God bless study of His word.

    SDG

    Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land? ~ Pastor John Piper

    “How should Bible-believing Christians align themselves in the Jewish-Palestinian conflict? There are Biblical reasons for treating both sides with compassionate public justice in the same way that disputes should be settled between nations generally. In other words, the Bible does not teach us to be partial to Israel or to the Palestinians because either has a special divine status.

    I do not deny that Israel was chosen by God from all the peoples of the world to be the focus of special blessing in the history of redemption which climaxed in Jesus Christ, the Messiah. “The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth” (Deuteronomy 7:6).

    Nor do I deny that God promised to Israel the presently disputed land from the time of Abraham onward. God said to Moses, “This is the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, ‘I will give it to your offspring'” (Deuteronomy 34:4).

    But neither of these Biblical facts leads necessarily to the endorsement of present-day Israel as the rightful possessor of all the disputed land. Israel may have such a right. And she may not. But that decision is not based on divine privilege. Why?

    First, a non-covenant-keeping people does not have a divine right to hold the land of promise. Both the blessed status of the people and the privileged right to the land are conditional on Israel’s keeping the covenant God made with her. Thus God said to Israel, “If you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples” (Exodus 19:5). Israel has no warrant to a present experience of divine privilege when she is not keeping covenant with God.

    More than once Israel was denied the experience of her divine right to the land when she broke covenant with God. For example, when Israel languished in captivity in Babylon, Daniel prayed, “O Lord . . .we have sinned and done wrong . . . To you, O Lord, belongs righteousness, but to us open shame . . . to all Israel . . . in all the lands to which you have driven them, because of the treachery that they have committed against you” (Daniel 9:4-7; see Psalm 78:54-61). Israel has no divine right to be in the land of promise when she is breaking the covenant of promise.

    This does not mean that other nations have the right to molest her. She still has human rights among nations when she has no divine right. Nations that gloated over her divine discipline were punished by God (Isaiah 10:5-13).

    Secondly, Israel as a whole today rejects her Messiah, Jesus Christ, God’s Son. This is the ultimate act of covenant-breaking with God. God promised that to Israel “a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6-7). But with tears this Prince of Peace looked out over Jerusalem and said, “Would that you . . . had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. . . . You did not know the time of your visitation” (Luke 19:42-44).

    When the builders rejected the beautiful Cornerstone, Jesus said, “The kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits” (Matthew 21:43). He explained, “Many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness” (Matthew 8:11-12)

    God has saving purposes for ethnic Israel (Romans 11:25-26). But for now the people are at enmity with God in rejecting the gospel of Jesus Christ, their Messiah (Romans 11:28). God has expanded his saving work to embrace all peoples (including Palestinians) who will trust his Son and depend on his death and resurrection for salvation. “Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one. He will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith” (Romans 3:29-30).

    The Christian plea in the Middle East to Palestinians and Jews is: “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). And until that great day when both Jewish and Gentile followers of King Jesus inherit the earth (not just the land), without lifting sword or gun, the rights of nations should be decided by the principles of compassionate and public justice, not claims to national divine right or status.”
    http://bit.ly/nDiuzO

    Does the Church Replace Israel?
    by Dr. Arturo Azurdia III

    “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this: ‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.” (Revelation 2:8)

    … Poverty as a consequence of slander and accusations …. The source of their persecution: the Romans. Fomenting the Roman persecution was the inciting accusations of ethnic Israelites about whom Jesus here says are not worthy of that ancient and honorable name. “I know the slander [blasphemy] by those who say they are Jews and are not.” My friends that is a profoundly important statement. When we watch the flow of redemptive history, the storyline of the Bible unfold and we move from the epic of promise into the epic of fulfillment, God’s people are no longer defined genealogically, they are defined Christologically … Christocentrically. You say “what do you mean?” True Jews are those who follow Jesus as their Messiah. They are characterized by a birth not of the flesh, but of the Spirit. They are marked out by a circumcision not of the flesh but of the heart. So who then are these people? These people who claim to be Jews by virtue of their bloodline, but according to Jesus himself, they are not. Jesus defines them for us: “They are a synagogue of Satan.” It is like what Jesus says to the unbelieving Pharisees in John chapter 8, who claimed the paternity of Abraham. He says: “You are of your father the devil.” You see beloved, this is why we need to think clearly at this point. This is what is so utterly wrong today when people refer to the Judeo-Christian God. [They say] “Christians and Jews really in the end worship the same God.” NO! …To reject Jesus Christ is to reject the full and final revelation of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The truth is there is no such thing as an orthodox Jew, beloved, unless he is a Christian because if the Jews really believed in the Old Testament they would believe in Jesus Christ. If a person does not believe in Jesus Christ then, according to John chapter 5, then he does not believe in Moses either. “Moses spoke of me,” Jesus said. And so Paul says in Romans chapter 2 “A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly nor is circumcision merely outward and physical”, no “a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly and circumcision is circumcision of the heart by the Spirit not the written code.”

    Now friends, people often ask me, “Do you believe that the church replaces Israel. The answer is “no of course not!!!” The church does not replace Israel. The fact is, Jewish people who reject Jesus Christ are apostate from Israel. Following Jesus Christ is the ultimate expression of true Judaism. Everything in the Old Testament pointed to Him. Israel and the church, then, are not in radical discontinuity, rather, the later is the consummated expression of the former. Beloved, a failure to appreciate that has profoundly determined strange things in our [own] country. By virtue of the influence of American evangelicalism we say silly things like “Always side with Israel, no matter what Israel does always side with Israel. God will take care of America if we always side with Israel. They are God’s people.” [But] Jesus says they are a synagogue of Satan. And is there a reason then why American evangelicals are notoriously ineffective in their evangelism of Arabs?

    [Jesus is] The full, final, ultimate expression of Judaism. You are Abraham’s seed. C’mon … Tear those pages out of your study Bibles.
    http://bit.ly/kkd8Q

  20. Christophe, I repeat for the last time: You made a judgment about why I hold to what I hold to in the Word, and your judgment is factually false. You can be humble enough to recognize that and stick with the Word — aside from your judgments — or you can somehow decide that you know the reason I interpret Scripture the way I do. Very sad that you can’t see this, friend, and I write this for your benefit, not mine, otherwise I wouldn’t take the time to interact.

  21. Christophe, this has to be my last point on this due to travel and schedule, but I want to be sure that you and others see your error. You wrote, “Looks like nobody knows anything unless they agree with you… and this has nothing to do with your “personal journey” either but everything with traditions you hold that bent your perception of the matter.”

    Nonsense, Christophe. I could go through every text with detailed exegesis to back my points, and I could cite scores of the world’s top scholars — from every background — that concur with me, that you, in serious error, attribute this to “my tradition.” Again, that is the ugly and wrong judgment that you need to reckon with, otherwise it points to a blight in your own soul that cannot recognize differences of interpretation without attributing more to it than that. What if I said you are following your anti-Semitic traditions? Wouldn’t that be a judgment just as wrong and erroneous?

    As for Piper, what a shame to see this quote. He obviously hasn’t learned well from Reformed luminaries like John Owen, Robert Murray M’Cheyne, Horatius Bonar, and Charles Spurgeon, all of whom believed in and spoke of a physical return of the Jewish people to their promised land. Again, I’m signing off here, but you’ll have to step higher and put aside your judgmentalism if you want to continue to post. Your disagreements are warmly welcomed; your personal judgments are not.

  22. “They’ve got you in the crosshairs of personal attacks and more.”

    @David,

    Nope. “They” simply time and time and time again present biblical arguments to Dr.Brown which he avoids and “they” noted that traditions and heritage largely influences Dr.Brown’s perception of the matter of who true Israel of God is and what is the true nature of promises given to Abraham including the promise of land. It is so easily to ride on the hobby horse and reduce all of that to “those mean people that attack you.” I suggest you review mu interaction with Dr.Brown again and pay attestation who is presenting biblical arguments in sequential and logical fashion and who is for the most part avoiding them and instead concentrating on general abilities and a person of his disputant.

    Dr.Brown is a great scholar and true brother in Christ and I respect him but he is simply wrong on this issue and he has a lot of going to keep him wrong on it and you should not follow him in that just because of his logical fallacy error of primarily arguing from Argumentum ad Verecundiam.

    Blessings and may God bless your study of His Word.

    SDG

  23. “Nonsense, Christophe. I could go through every text with detailed exegesis to back my points,”

    Perhaps you could but the reality is that you have not done so Dr.Brown. Not even ONCE. I can tell you a lot of things I can as well.

    “Again, that is the ugly and wrong judgment that you need to reckon with, otherwise it points to a blight in your own soul that cannot recognize differences of interpretation without attributing more to it than that.”

    No Dr.Brown. It is not is simply a recognition of influences. It is for example the same mechanism that makes converts from Roman Catholicism into true faith preferring arminian view on the salvation and not reformed for the simple reason that this is what is familiar to them from Roman religion for it is largely the same. You might paint it in personal emotions and make it “ugly” for yourself but the reality is different. You surely recognize that what is the hardest thing for us to notice is our traditions that we had assimilated on “our journey” to use your phrase and that can go for a Roman Catholic who converted to Christianity and sticks with arminian view of salvation as it can for a Jewish believer who will hold some parts of Judaism even though he is a true Christian. That is a simple recognition of reality. You dislike it and do whatever you want with it but I think deep down you can be disturbed that some of that can be actually the truth.

    ” What if I said you are following your anti-Semitic traditions? Wouldn’t that be a judgment just as wrong and erroneous?”

    You wouldn’t have any case for that Dr.Brown besides just pure rhetoric and need to quickly and emotionally “avenge” yourself. I cannot be for I quoted Rev. Fred Klett and I referred to him as my Jewish brother which is the same way I feel about you. So obviously that kind of bludgeon on your part would be just that… an emotional need for vengeance and I know that you know better than do that even though you start to imply that…

    “As for Piper, what a shame to see this quote. He obviously hasn’t learned well…”

    🙂

    Dr.Brown your response is exactly what I said it will be and predicted it will be. None knows anything well unless they agree with you. May I suggest something Dr.Brown? I can assure you that Dr.Piper’s reformed library part is substantially larger if not several times larger than your. That he spent seriously more time studying reformed writers and published way more on the subject interacting with those reformed writers than you did or do and for you to state what you have just stated is above is not only disingenuous and troubling but also shocking especially your usage of the word “shame”? Please rethink what you are doing here and how you address fellow workers of Christ and seriously give a thought of what causes that in you especially in light of your assertion of: “your personal judgments are not”.

    Safe and blessed travels.

    Blessings and may God bless you in the study of His Word.

    SDG

  24. Christophe, I actually grabbed a minute I didn’t expect to have before my show and before my flight later today, so I write this note truly concerned that you are continuing to miss the point I making in a very serious way, and thus you continue to make serious judgments and wrong statements. I will try to address this on the air today, since Friday’s show is devoted to a wide range of subjects. I urge you to listen rather than to respond to this post. It will be very helpful to you.

  25. Dr.Brown,

    I will listen the recording later but please do meditate on what and how are you saying thing here and to help you with that I will juxtapose two quotes from you:

    “As for Piper, what a shame to see this quote. He obviously hasn’t learned well…”
    ~ Dr.Michael Brown

    “…thus you continue to make serious judgments and wrong statements.”
    ~ Dr.Michael Brown

    I seriously do hope that you will see the dichotomy above which joins the list of other things you said and more importantly thing you have not said.

    Blessings,

  26. About relacement theology, I don’t know much about it.

    I have seen a tree that had some grafting work done to it.

    It seems to me that in order to graft one twig of leaves in, what is necessary is to first cut off a part of the natural tree.

    Suppose this grafting was done to an Elm tree for example. Let’s suppose Maple twigs were grafted in and that this process was continued on a rather large scale.

    I wonder what the tree would look like in the fall. Elm leaves usually turn uniformly yellow while Maple leaves often go from orange to red.

    From a distance I suppose such a tree might begin to look more like a Maple tree by the color of the leaves in the fall, though by it’s shape of the structure of the limbs and branches it may still resemble the Elm. (which it really is)

    I suppose a man might notice such a sight and say, “Look! the maple leaves…what? I suppose we don’t want to say ‘replaced’…well they occupied the same place as the previous leaves, though they didn’t actually….?”

    And…it really is …what kind of tree? What’s the name of it?

  27. Let’s consider this from Romans 11, that the greatest manifestation of the sons of God will be through the natural branches, that the land is a part of the gifts mentioned in Romans 11:29, and that the gifts and calling go together with God.

  28. I think some approach this issue only seeking the facts, trying to see things as clearly and objectively without becoming biased by emotion, but I haven’t met many of them. What I have experienced is people who have emotions and feelings and look for scholars and research that supports their feelings. So there are Jew lovers and Jew haters. God of Israel lovers and God of Israel haters.
    Jew lovers and God of Israel lovers feel so very strongly that the God of Israel is just and righteous and that we’re too bless the Jews whom God told us to bless. From this position, they seek scripture, media and research that supports this, while the reverse is true. Jew haters and those who hate the promises that God made to Israel will seek anything they can to support their position. Most people I know seek things to support the state of their heart, without wanting to change their heart. It’s rare to meet people who don’t feel much, and only want facts for facts’ sake.

  29. David, aren’t facts facts, regardless of one’s emotions? And isn’t the truth of the Word the truth of the Word regardless of emotions? We might not recognize those facts or truths because of our emotions, but they remain facts and truths nonetheless.

  30. @Dr. Brown,

    I agree 100%. My point is really that some expect us to have no emotions when approaching the Israeli-Palestine conflict, but I don’t think that is possible. If your heart beats for those things that God’s heart beats for, you will feel incredibly strongly about this topic. When what sounded like a post-Christian Zionist rang into your show and accused you for not being balanced, when all you were doing was balancing out that Jew-hatefest, I could hear your emotions flaring up, and why shouldn’t they, that was a completely unjust allegation on his part.

    I apologise for not being entirely clear, but my point was about how people are often selective about what research and scholars they accept, and that selectiveness comes from their gut feeling. I’m not going to spend hours and hours reading Jew-hater material ‘just to be balanced’. But I’ll side with the Israelis 98% of the time, why? Cause my gut tells me to.

  31. To that caller who said:

    “My issue is as a Christian, and I think this is the real point of the video, you know I wish they would have emphasised it a lot more instead of the rhetoric, etc, etc, was that as Christians is our role to be ‘we’re gonna support the Israelis and tell the Palestinians that they’re squatters or is our role to put a Palestinian hand in Jesus’ hand and a Israeli hand in Jesus’ hand and bring them both together, is that not our role?! And I feel like white American Christian Evangelicals are totally one sided in the way that they’re approaching this issue and I wish they were more in the middle.”

    What is really sneaky about this video being aimed at ‘white American Christian Evangelicals’ is that Israel is largely vilified in the international community and the world generally stands against Israel, while ‘white American Christian Evangelicals’ make up their only significant support worldwide. Think of it like a boy being beaten up at school by ten guys, but he has two friends that try and stick up for him against the bullies, but if you can persuade the two friends that instead of ‘we’re gonna support the Israelis’ they should really be ‘putting a Palestinian hand in Jesus’ hand and a Israeli hand in Jesus’ hand and bring them both together’ then suddenly you have neutralised the two friends and the bullies can do what they really want to do without the two friends getting in the way, and that is what this video hopes to achieve, take away some of Israel’s most significant support worldwide!

  32. Christians should be supporting other Christians whether they be Jews or Palestinians. They shouldn’t be taking the part of Jews over their brethren. Arab Christians are suffering by Israeli policies! A missionary we support in my Church and who lives and works in Lebanon has told us about Israel as a huge problem,

  33. Dear Dr. Brown, I’m a big fan of yours (we share age and beeing a former musician).
    I’m very aware of this problem and studied a lot (and write with a rabbi..the rabbis ) from a particular branch. (Look here). Made 1 year before the financial crises started! (there are 35 lectures more)
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6581526411167367188
    My suggestion for this problem is….we have to buy or way out of with a lot of money.

    Buy a big piece of land and help to rebuild that land (for the palestines), and if not….it’s over!
    God will not help the Jews or the Christians before we solve that problem first with lots of money (it still sceaper than keeping the army’s of the world up and running. (U.S. 2 billion a day). So let’s set up a fund for it and it must be big…..zionist Jews (which there are a lot too…..)have to fill that fund too…with all they have (Rotchilds, Cicil’s, Rockefellers, an others…in the States the “Jewish” lobby….they are filthy rich ), and if not (no buying out) said once again….we will not make it!

    Mr. Meijers for Christ! (which nobody likes for an answer on that particular “Jewish side”)

    O.F. Meijers

  34. Paul, be aware that there is a massive, anti-Israel bias in the Muslim world, and often Christians are influenced by it. Please listen to my show this Thursday, where I will continue the critique of the video and deal with some of these very issues.

  35. Dear Paul,

    Outside of the missionary from Lebanon that your church supports how many Arab Christians are you in personal contact with? I have friends all over the Middle East, even in Saudi who are devout Christians and would do anything for Jesus. However, there is a brand of the faith in the Middle East, as Dr. Brown said, heavily influenced by the Muslim world.

    One time I was simply sharing my heart with a Coptic from Egypt and telling him what the Lord has placed within my heart for Jews around the world and Israel, specifically. I brought up moving to Israel and once I said that I was called a “Christ killer”. Can you imagine?

    This is sadly much more the case for Palestinian Christians, take the absolute famous Mosab Hasan Yousef, one of the famous converts from Islam to Christianity. He is known in Arabic as “ibn hamas” – the son of hamas, meaning he is the son of one of the leaders of hamas! For him to convert to Christianity, amazing! Right? Well, sadly his viewpoint of Israel did NOT change much at all. Another famous convert, maybe not as well known, but his name is Walid Shoebat, he was also rained a muslim, identified as a Palestinian and he even committed acts of terrorism in Israel, such as setting off bombs and everything.. Spent time in prison and all that. He has such an amazing heart for Israel and would die for any Jew in the world. He exposes many of the actions of people like Mosab Hasan Yousef, shows his true colors and everything..

    Amazing how one ex-terrorist grows a heart for Israel and is willing to die for any Jew, another ex-terrorist has been on TV (Arab TV) saying if you see a mujihadin going into Israel and about to blow up school children on a bus, don’t tell the authorities! Stay loyal to your arab people!

    Can you imagine that? It is a fiery, Palestinian brand of the faith that is vehemently anti-Israel.

    Many Christians in the middle east share Mosab’s view of Christianity, one that is so anti-Israel you would not imagine.

    We need more Walid Shoebat’s in the world, and more Christians in general who support Israel.

    http://www.shoebat.com/videos/sonOfHamas.php

    I encourage you to speak to Arabs who support Israel, listen to their side of the story. I’ve personally met many Muslims who went from a hate to love relationship with Israel once they became Christian. I keep in constant contact with Arabs in the Middle East, there are many in the Middle East who are just Christian by name, much like here in America. Sometimes people are just Christian by name because they were born Christians.

  36. I have lived in the Middle East in a very moderate and liberal Muslim country (given Muslim standards). Genuinely great people and very tolerant attitude.

    BUT, here’s a little bit of history. Some time around the 2nd World War, when this country did not have oil or gas, the people were very poor and did not have any medical facility for the masses – a few British and other missionary Doctors and Nurses when in and lived with the people to help them both physically and spiritually. There were a lot of locals who accepted faith in Christ and attended Assembly gatherings.

    (Until a few years ago, the old church building and the mission compound was still standing, and I had the privilege to teach Sunday School there for some years.)

    But everything changed when “Arab pride” swept the land. Islam became very prominent in the minds of people, oil and gas discoveries were made, and minor persecutions against the local Christians started. Laws were enacted that made it mandatory for all locals to wear a special robe and headgear in order to claim citizenship status. The local Christians, so as not to stick out, started wearing the prescribed attire and took their faith underground.

    Over the course of a generation, the faith that went underground – completely disappeared, with youth giving in to peer-pressure and became full blown Muslims. The Church property continued to stand and was used by expatriates, and eventually demolished. But they rulers graciously allowed for a new Church building for the expats.

    Israel was always problem for the “Arab pride” idea. Since this country could do nothing about Israel, they used Israel (and they still do) – as a lightning rod for all domestic problems. Since there is no freedom of press or thought, the leader being Supreme – all pent-up anger against the ruler is re-channeled against Israel. So much of the anger you see on TV in the Arab world against Israel is really an anger against their own rulers. Since they cannot express that anger against their own rulers, and they must have a release valve for the anger, they use Israel for it.

    The people are very nice and very kind and all they are interested in is getting by with life. Culturally and legally they have shut out any idea of Christ and redemption in Him. The example of Christian behavior they see are from the poor examples of the expatriates. They do not differentiate between a believer and a non believer – if you are an American, you are automatically considered Christian, no matter that you may be an Atheist for all you care. This is because in their mind if your parents are Muslim, you are a Muslim, and since you do not have a freedom of thought, you do not “become” anything else.

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