Dr. Brown Answers Your E-Questions

1. Ok, here is my story that happened to me today. I went to the dentist this morning thinking I had a small cavity, The dentist took x-rays of my tooth. She told me that my tooth is decayed and it is has a infection. I said well, I don’t hardly feel any pain. She said that you have a “Good Immune System” and it is fighting it off. She told me I need to get the tooth pulled. I had to call an oral surgeon because she couldn’t handle this type of tooth removal. So, as soon I left the dentist I called the oral surgeon to make an appointment. Well, they told me they have a 11:00am appt. available. I said fine I’ll take it. Then 5 mins later the oral surgeon office called me and said can you come in now instead? I said ok, I’ll leave now. That was at 10:00 am.
   I go there. The dentist is talking to me saying the decayed tooth is going to cause me to have to have surgery to dig the roots out of my gums because he said as soon as I pull your tooth it is going to break off leaving your roots intact. I said fine. Lets do this. I was nervous and I asked the dentist… Do you have faith in Jesus?” Cause I wanted prayer to calm me down. Well, the look on his face I knew who I was dealing with. His eyes went cold and anger showed in his eyes. I then saw his reaction and I said to him…Never mind I won’t talk about Jesus.
   So, he numbed me and started to work on my tooth. I started to lift one hand upwards. The dental assistant asked me if she wanted me to hold her hand. I said ..”No I’m just praying.” I asked the Lord for His peace to come upon me, I asked that the Lord will give me favor and to have the whole tooth to be pulled out without breaking. I asked the Lord to use “His Power” to go through the surgeon’s hand. Well, guess what??? The Lord is good. The Lord is Great, the Lord is Awesome. 🙂 The whole tooth came out 100%. No breakage. As soon as it was pulled out I shouted out loud. “Thank you Jesus, Praise you Lord, HALLELUJAH!!
   I thanked the Dr too. Then he left the room and never checked back on me. (I did however get a couple of stitches.) So, the Lord showed His glory today to this unsaved surgeon.

   Now the reason also why I shared my story is because The Lord showed me that every body has an Immune System. There is also an Immune System located in the body of Christ. If one takes care of their body they will have a good and strong Immune System. Well, the Immune System of the body of Christ is not strong right now. There is a sickness in the body that needs to be removed. That sickness that has weakened the Immune System is called “PRIDE”. The Lord can not use His power in a body of believers with pride being so strong.

   Proverbs 16:18
   Pride goes before destruction,
   a haughty spirit before a fall.

   Every believer of Jesus needs to examine his/her own hearts, own actions.

   Hebrews 3:15
   while it is said, TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
   DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME.”

   The Lord gives His people eyes to see not to judge but to pray and to make aware of the situation. So, please fellow brothers and sisters, if you have unforgivingness, resulted from pride. Please asked the Lord to humble you. Repent. If you all want to see revival, an movement from the Lord ask Him to show you if there is any pride harboring in you.

   I pray that every follower of Christ will ask the Lord that question. Then we will see the movement of God work among His people, move among this world.

   Body of Christ please lets strengthen our Immune System” Let us be ONE as Jesus prayed to the Father we would be ONE. Lets Lose the Pride.

   LORD PLEASE FORGIVE US ALL.

2. When we become Christians we do not have automatic protection against everything, but God has given us his armor which we must put on.

   Pride is not righteous, nor true. It’s not a part of faith. There’s no salvation in it. Pride is not about Jesus.

   I want to be about Jesus. I want to be about the way, the truth, and the life. I want to be a part of the light of this world. I want to be a part of salvation.

   I want to be a blessing. I want the unsaved to know they have been blessed by my life touching theirs in some way because of Christ. I want them to know that Christ can do wonderful things through them, that because of him they live and move and have their being, and that when they are being what God wants them to be, whether a doctor, lawyer, plumber, or clerk, that they are blessed because of Christ, whether they know him or not.

   I want them to come to know him.

3. If a man is saved by grace through faith, is it arrogant for a man (myself) to fear going to hell IF the Lord has already saved me?

   Is it boasting denial of the Truth to fear going to hell for a saved man?

4. (meaning: if “my works” had nothing to do with my salvation, then I should not worry about “my works”, because that worrying is presuming as if I could save myself by them — or negate the salvation of Jesus Christ by them [salvation which was wrought apart from any work of my own]?)

5. Daniel,

   I was curious to know if you support the theological view “once saved always saved” ?

6. Daniel,
   I know plenty of Christians who love, follow, serve the Lord, myself included who also fell into that thought or mindset for a moment in their lives that even though we know we are saved, the thoughts were coming in our minds that say… BUT YOU ARE STILL GOING TO GO TO HELL. (What a scary, freaky feeling that is.) Years ago when that thought hit me I confided in a friend of mine about that. She said she was in that place once before too. It is just Satan’s tricks to mess with our minds. Remember the battle field is in our minds.

   I do not believe in the theory once saved always saved. That is why daily I always ask the Lord to forgive me of all my sins, those I am aware of and those I am not aware of. Forgiveness from the Lord is priceless.
   Daniel, whenever those thoughts come into your mind about going to Hell, just say to the devil…”Jesus defeated you. You are the father of lies, you are nothing but a liar, leave my thoughts. Then say…Lord let me hear your voice and your voice only”

   Ray…. You have such a great understanding of the heart of Jesus. I know the Lord smiles down upon you.

   Blessings and Peace Daniel and Ray. Ben too 🙂

7. Daniel,
   Read Psalm 27. That should help you.

8. BenKC,
   Why would I struggle with the questions that I posted if I believed 1-saved-always-saved? The answer to your question is: NO.

   Debbie,
   Thank you.

9. Questions like “How could Jesus not know when he was coming back?” get asked because of the Trinity doctrine.

   I’m quite certain we wouldn’t be seeing people stumble over verses like Matt 24:36 were it not for the teaching of the doctrine of the Trinity.

   We live in a time when some things seem to many to be no offence at all.

   “Once saved, always saved” I don’t see in the Bible. “He that endures to the end shall be saved.” , I can find. (Matt 24:13.

   They that abides in Christ shall endure to the end because he is their Salvation. If we sin, isn’t our salvation in jeopardy? Though at times our salvation may be in peril, our Salvation is not.

   If we have received the gospel we need to keep it to the end. We had better not go on without the cross. We had better continue in the word of God for this world is hostile toward God and the thief still comes to steal, kill, and destroy. (John 10:10)

   Jesus is still the good shepherd. He hasn’t changed. We are still saved by hope, for the word of our salvation hasn’t changed either. (Rom 8:24)

10. Ray,
    You said that if we KEEP the Word of the Gospel, we WILL BE SAVED (future-tense).

    Now, WHAT is that Word?? Is that Word, “You are saved. Rejoice, because you are saved, and do not fear going to hell, because you are saved from that hell. Rejoice, because you are SAVED from that wrath of God” — and is, then, constant FEAR of going to a place I have been saved from (and the complaint & discontinuation of rejoicing, because of the fear) ACTUALLY disobedience and unbelief and a “not-keeping” of the Word (and, to ‘be saved’ in the end, I must have ‘kept the Word’ ?)

11. If a Christian is not living in sin, has no sins he knows of, judges himself according to the scriptures, does he need to live in fear of going to hell?

    But if he sins, shouldn’t he fear going to hell?

12. These are questions I am asking myself; not questions I have conclusions to.

    What is “sin”? There are different forms of a sin. Paul talks about the Galatians “disobeying the Truth”; and in another place, that Jesus requires “the obedience of faith” among the nations.

    Now, I could “disobey the Truth [Gospel]”; or “not receive the love of the Truth [Gospel]” — and THIS, ITSELF, be a sin — by fearing what I ought not fear (sin, being, an acting as if the Truth were not True; an erring from the Truth”)

    Grace [“while we were without POWER”] comes through faith.
    If I lack the proper faith [“Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God”] I will not have the means of grace [power] in order to live holy, no matter how much I desire to [the Bible speaks of men who have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof”]. This could be because I don’t WANT to know the Truth, because I am proud — the Truth could ELUDE my understanding: I know someone who is treated nice by everyone; but thinks everyone is mean to her — she is completely blinded to the Truth [that everyone is KIND to her], because her desire to be the center of attention masks itself in the guise of the ‘victim’; thereby, she is the center of attention, and the Truth [that everyone is extremely kind to her] threatens that “order” of hers. She has invested her strength, thoughts, plans into the deception [which places her at the center of everything, rather than Christ]. She CANNOT SEE the Truth that everyone GOES OUT OF THEIR WAY to be nice to her, because she is BLINDED [“by the god of this age”].

    In the same way, I [or others] may be BLINDED to the Truth by pride [Truth will exalt/center everything on God; and take you out of the center of existence/attention/fame/”coolness”].
    “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
    The humble [“as children”, rather than “not many wise; not many mighty, or noble”] BELIEVE [“by GRACE through FAITH; not of WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD ***BOAST***” + “receive, with humility, the ingraft Word, that is able to save the soul”] and ARE SAVED through the “POWER of God”, because they can SEE [or, are WILLING to see – the question is whether I am WILLING to throw my spirit, soul and STRENGTH into working Truth/God-centered and glorifying reality.] The god of this age is a god of pride, suppressing the Truth by the selfsame thing.
    Those people [who I am afraid I have/had become] who deny the power of God, while maintaining a proper exterior “form of godliness”, deny it and suppress it through “UNRIGHTEOUSNESS” — through ‘immorality’? No. UNRIGHTEOUSNESS: because of not wanting to be HUMBLE, and work the Truth that is God-and-His-love-centered Reality [because of being accustomed to DEFENDING/SAVING SELF through keeping others far away, rather than being a defenseless {except for an entrusting of self to the Shepherd, Who IS powerful} lamb, who has no sharp teeth or claws].
    The power to be godly [grace] is “nullified” by the proud arguments of the spirit of the god of this age – the TRUTH cannot be accepted by these, since it “threatens” their self-centered existence. It threatens their PLEASURE. Yes, pride has pleasure [for a season]. Pride, however, because of its very NATURE, disallows [too often] the offender therein to CONFESS their silliness and love of the unrighteous reward [“filthy lucre”] and pleasure therein.

    I might have just answered my own questions…

13. God is so often found to be nearer to us than we had been aware of.

14. It’s An Easter Celebration!

    In the past there have been discussions upon these forms about the word ‘Easter’. According to Dr. Brown, the word ‘Easter’ used in the KJV is a mistranslation, but I will reveal from the Bible that the word ‘Easter’ is not a mistranslation and that its spiritual importance to us is just as significant as the word ‘Passover’; a very wonderful truth that only can be conveyed by the word ‘Easter!’

    The root word of ‘Easter’ is ‘East’.

    From the beginning of mankind, God has attached a spiritual significance in the direction of the East. Not only did God plant a garden eastward in Eden, He made the entrance of the Garden of Eden to face east.

    So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Genesis 3:24

    Woven throughout the Bible a Divine importance is being bestowed on the direction of the East. From the dream given to the Egyptian Pharaoh in which he dreamt about ears of corn being blasted with an east wind (Genesis 41) to the red sea being parted by a strong east wind (Exodus14:21). God said to Moses…

    And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them. Exodus 25:8

    The entrance of this tabernacle that the Israelites built for God could only face the East. Only Moses, Aaron and his sons were allowed to camp on the east of the tabernacle before its entrance. (Numbers 3:38) Any stranger who approached the eastern side of the tabernacle was to be put to death! When the high priest went into the most holy place, he had to sprinkle the blood on the mercy seat facing the East.

    And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times. Leviticus 16:14

    In the Ezekiel, it reveals the commandment that the eastern gate of the outer sanctuary to remain close because God had entered in that way.

    Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut. Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. Ezekiel 44:1,2

    When the announcement is sounded about the Second Coming of Christ, we are to do what? Look to the East!

    For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:27

    When the angel came from heaven to the earth, he came from the east…

    And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Revelation 7:2

    When the Shekhinah glory left Solomon’s temple, it lingered on the eastern mountains before turning to heaven…

    And the glory of the LORD went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city. Ezekiel 11:23

    Definition of the suffix ‘er’ is used in forming nouns designating persons from the object of their occupation or labor or from their place of origin or abode or designating either persons or things from some special characteristic or circumstance

    Hence the word – “Easter” meaning designation THE HEAVENLY THRONE OF GOD!!! Amen!!!

    Need more proof? Let’s examine the first fruit celebration that was a requirement for all male Israelites (Deuteronomy 16:16) that took place on that day we call ‘Easter’.

    …shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. Leviticus 23:10-11

    This symbolic celebration was authenticated in the natural when Christ was resurrected that day. His resurrection was a first fruit resurrection, but there were also others who were resurrected with Him.

    And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Matthew 27:52-53

    Those saints that were resurrected with Christ are the 144,000 men, and they along with Christ had to be presented before none other than God the Father himself in that earthly day in accordance with the firstfruits celebration. In the Revelations, we are given a glimpse of this heavenly presentation…

    And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand,… These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. …for they are without fault before the throne of God. Revelation 14:1-5

    As the Bible has revealed to us, eastward was the direction that Christ and the 144,000 took for their travel from Earth to Heaven that day, hence the word ‘Easter’! This next verse tells us why this revelation is so wonderful for us…

    For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. Romans 11:16

    We ARE holy because They ARE Holy!!!

    Today is An Easter, not a Passover, Celebration!!!

    In addition, we have further proof that the event shown to us in Revelation 14:1 is the first appearance of Christ and the 144,000 before the throne of God for Christ is standing with them on the mount! At that time, God the Father had not yet said until Christ…

    “Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool!” (Hebrews 1:13)

15. Pam,

    Please refer to this expose on “America’s Occult Holidays” (Part 5 — beginning at minute 1:40) …

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfXrgc6F49I

    …wherein Easter is spoken of by an ex-Illuminist, who had extensive knowledge in eastern rites, magick, etc.,

16. Awful translation of Easter.

17. I don’t know for sure how the celebration of the resurrection of Christ (as well as his sacrificial work on the cross, being our Passover lamb) became known by many Christians as Easter, but it seems to me that it might have been that some people in the world had some other thing they called Easter at the same time of year and Christians talked to them about Christ and how they celebrated him at that time.

    I suppose they may have said something like, “Please come to our church and see how we celebrate Easter.” or something like that.

    Later I suppose they began to say things like. “Easter to us is about Christ our Passover lamb being sacrificed for us, and his resurrection.”

    I tend to not go along with the rationalization of words by their roots and suffixes.

    I think anyone who studies words and how they are used should be able to notice that new words come about in languages and that sometimes the meaning of a word can change because of how people tended to use that word over a period of time.

    When enough people use a word in a new way, it takes on a new meaning in their culture.

18. I suppose that the word Passover can mean the lamb the children of Israel ate in Egypt, or it can mean Christ and how he suffered and died on the cross, or it can mean Christ, his suffering, death, and his resurrection, for he is our way out of sin, (Egypt being a symbolic representation of it and the the things of the flesh)and in order for us to be out of sin, Christ needed to be raised from the dead.(I Cor 15:17)

    Therefore the word passover can be used in several ways.

    The word Easter can also be used in several ways and each use has a bit of a different meaning.

    There is a way in which Easter can be used in place of the word Passover, and there are ways the word Easter is used in which it does not represent passover.

    If there is an idea in scripture and the idea is something real, there should be a corresponding word for that thing.

    If someone says there is a certain idea in the Bible, they should be able to point to a specific
    word for that very idea, a word that has within it
    a meaning that does convey the very idea by it’s very use, without forcing some other idea into it.

    Sometimes people like to strain a word by trying to put too much into it, more meaning than it is meant to hold.

    This I think we don’t want to do.

    Dare I say that if someone submits to me that there is an idea in the Bible, but they can not point to a specific word that does indeed convey that idea without trying to force the word, or force something into it that a particular word isn’t meant to hold by it’s meaning, then shouldn’t I wonder if indeed the very idea is in fact even given mention in the Bible?

19. Ray, You #17 seems to fit the case of cultural adjustment in a given culture’s church history evolution, as such. Your assessments are usually quite accurate. Your first supposition of #18 is exactly the way Paul put it, where “He is our passover”. Stop all that thinking outloud stuff, too much compassion, not enough hardtacks, brother!!!

20. Ray,

    Do you deny the doctrine of the Trinity? I kind of get that idea from reading some of what you wrote. Hopefully I’m wrong.

21. I have no interest in being of the Trinity, or of the doctrine of the Trinity. If there is a Trinitarian who says that one need not necessarily be one in order to be saved, I don’t think I’ve met him yet.

    Instead of being a Trinitarian, I would rather be a Christian. If I have to choose one over the other, I would rather be a Christian.

22. So trinitarians aren’t Christians? I believe scripture is quite clear that God is triune in his nature. Is it the most easy concept to grasp? No, but it is the very nature of God so how could it be simple to grasp?

    Instead of being a Trinitarian, I would rather be a Christian. If I have to choose one over the other, I would rather be a Christian.—-Ray

    It’s not an either/or “choice”. You can fully be a Christian and a trinitarian, I think it’s the most pure form of Christianity. Yes, a denial of the trinity to me brings up serious doubts to whether one is truly a Christian. Any form of unitarianism has been exposed long ago as a heresy. I think it’s wise to point this out the way that Dr. Brown did to Anthony Buzzard in their debate last year. They both expressed serious concern for whether he was truly saved for his denial of the trinity.

    Also as for “once saved always saved” I believe you have taken Matthew 24:13 out of context.

    How do you respond to John 10?

    27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

23. I think it’s wise to point this out the way that Dr. Brown did to Anthony Buzzard in their debate last year. They both expressed serious concern for whether he was truly saved for his denial of the trinity.—–ME

    Sorry,

    It should be: I think it’s wise to point this out the way that Dr. Brown did to Anthony Buzzard in their debate last year. HE expressed serious concern for whether Anthony was truly saved for his denial of the trinity.

24. I think lots of Trinitarians are Christians. Sadly there may be many who are not. I wish they all were, don’t you?

    I believe God is a lot more than triune in his nature. Three is only three. I believe God is a lot more.

    God is love. God is true. God is just. Those are just three things that he is. He’s a whole lot more than just that.

    I tend to think along ways that are not necessarily on a Trinitarian path.

    Does Christianity have different branches and is it that one of them happens to be Trinitarianism?

    If so, what about Christians who don’t take that branch but remain connected to the true vine which is Christ? Are they not Christians also?

    Is any Christian who doesn’t like to be considered a Trinitarian, a Unitarian? I’m not even sure what that is, though it seems to mean they believe there is one God. I also believe there is one God. I don’t see that as heresy.

    I wonder what it is about Unitarians that is heresy.

    As far as I can tell, the scripture neither affirms nor denies the Trinity and I would like to be like it in many ways.

    I would rather have my life conform to the scripture than to have it conform to the doctrine of the Trinity, given the choice.

    I believe the context of Matthew 24:13 is about how in the last days the love of many will wax cold because iniquity abounds, and because of that
    it will be difficult to stand as a Christian should, but those that endure to the end, holding onto the faith of Christ shall find the reward of eternal life.

    My response to John 10 is this:

    I’m thankful that Jesus is the door to the sheepfold and not a thief or a robber. He came into this world from heaven, leaving the glory he had with the Father even before the world was. I trust that it was by the word of God given to Jesus that he spoke the things into being and as a result everything was created by God through him.

    Jesus left all that glory to come into this world
    using the door God gave him. (see Luke 1:35)

    Anyone who comes into the sheepfold without going through Christ is a thief and a robber. They have to come in through the cross and his shed blood, having received by faith his suffering and death
    as payment for their sins that are past. Having been forgiven of their sins they enter into a new life of God in Jesus because of his resurrection.

    Those who were of Adam, the first man, and have been grafted into Christ the second man are given a new life, and my response is to thank God and give him praise for making me something new in Christ.

    Heaven opens it’s doors because of Jesus. Because of him the righteous enter in.

    They don’t get in because they are a Trinitarian.
    Only Jesus gets a man into heaven.

    Those who know Jesus and are known by him will hear his voice. Because they listen and obey, the wicked one will not overcome them. They have eternal life and they will not fall into death as they abide in Christ even as Christ abides in them.

    Because Jesus rescued them and ransomed them by his blood, no one can snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

    Satan has no power over the blood of Jesus.

25. Sorry Guys, I have no time to pay attention to your disputes about what I write! That’s not my motivation for visiting Line of Fire. I only have time to listen to the radio show then place a comment if I have something to share; therefore I’m just letting you know that I won’t be debating what I write with any of you!

    God Bless!
    Have A Nice Day!

26. Ray,

    Thanks for the response. There are several issues that I will clarify in future posts that I know will be a great help to you. You seem to be in a bit of confusion about what the Orthodox view of the Trinity is and how this knowledge is important to the Christian faith. There is good reason this doctrine is always posted near, or at the very top of a statement of faith of any church website.

    About John 10-28-29, I wasn’t talking about a Trinitarian application of this verse when I mentioned that text. I was discussing how that text applies to the “once saved always saved” belief. Specifically how Jesus says the one’s receiving eternal life cannot be snatched out of his or the Father’s hand. Which seems to imply that once God has a hold of you (eternal life) there’s no power that is able to keep you from falling away from him (losing salvation). Also see Romans 8:38-39 which seems to teach the same.

    Looking forward to future discussion with you Ray.

    God Bless.

27. “Specifically how Jesus says the one’s receiving eternal life cannot be snatched out of his or the Father’s hand. Which seems to imply that once God has a hold of you (eternal life) there’s no power that is able to keep you from falling away from him (losing salvation).” – EDH

    Makes you wonder why God didn’t grapple Adam and Eve?

28. Makes you wonder why God didn’t grapple Adam and Eve?—-Juan G

    I think there’s good reason to believe that God did after their fall.

29. “I think there’s good reason to believe that God did after their fall.” – EDH

    A little late to invalidate their wills, don’t you think?

30. A little late to invalidate their wills, don’t you think?—–Juan G

    No. I wouldn’t even say He necessarily invalidated their wills. Once God the Spirit cleans you and gives you a new heart and mind, you will never fall away from him.

    38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

31. Ray, Perhaps all is cleared up in seeing how they work together as God, in Christ on earth. Recall at least in human relations that all persons of God were present at the Baptism of Jesus, and noted and accounted for. All bore testimony of Jesus as the chosen One for the fullness of time for Israel, according to the Prophets of Old. Reading John 13:13 on though chapter 16 the way they work in concert in human relations to bear testimony of the Son as preeminent becomes clear. And, the Son stated it was “better” for him to go away to send the Spirit (which, according to the passage both He and the Father send to believers). There is a great entwining of relations, actions, and considerations when representing God in terms of the Trinity. This is to describe essential personalities, not the attributes of these persons, as you mention as additional descriptors. Were even Jesus sitting on His throne in Jerusalem, ruling the Nations, the Spirit and the Father in human relations would be acting to bear testimony of Him, to reveal who are His, and to show us the Way in each adopted child’s heart.

32. I don’t know why, but it seems to me that it’s easier for me to receive that Jesus is triune, rather than for me to receive that God is triune.

    Does that seem strange?

    I think it’s important to understand that the scripture does warn against falling away from God and being cut off, even being a castaway.

    Isn’t there a possibility of falling away from God
    and perishing having once received the truth?

    I believe the scripture has several warnings about this possibility.

    Isn’t it possible to perish after once having received the truth?

    I consider it a real possibility. I also believe that if one is cut off from Christ, there is a possibility of being grafted in again.

33. There is no trinity mentioned in the Scripture.

    What does it mention?

    1-a Father
    2-a Son (born of the Father)
    3-the Spirit (Gift of the Father) of the Father and of the Son

    I don’t understand this “adding” to Scripture — and holding to it, dogmatically.

    Can you explain this, please? Thanks

34. “Once God the Spirit cleans you and gives you a new heart and mind, you will never fall away from him.” – EDH

    So apparently the heart and mind of Adam, the creation of God, was insufficient. The second one will be sure. Then again, I still see Christians sin. When will you be true to God?

35. “Once God the Spirit cleans you and gives you a new heart and mind, you will never fall away from him.” – EDH

    I can’t figure out why a believer would be more restricted than Adam. There are plenty of scriptures that conflict with your notion. Like why would we be told to endure, when we are kept by God in His hand. I believe the doctrine you espouse plays a role in the creation of lame Christians…since it would be so comforting to tell yourself that your fate is sealed, even while you sin.

36. Juan G,

    I think you’re misunderstanding me. Of course the true Christian who’s born again by the Spirit can sin. I’m saying that once God truly changes you and gives you a new heart and mind, you will never fall so far as to completely lose faith and reject God.

    There are plenty of scriptures that conflict with your notion.—— Juan

    Yes, there are scriptures that at face value seem to conflict with my notion, but there are scriptures that likewise seem to conflict with yours. The only way to get to the bottom of this is to get into thorough exegesis of each scripture that seemingly supports teachings that are contradictory. I’ve posted several like John 10 and Romans 8:38, how do you deal with those? Another is Jude 24 “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy

    I haven’t always believed this doctrine and I’m pretty new to it. I’m completely open to being corrected, but the way to do it is to really thoroughly dive into the texts. So far, all we have done here is trade verses back and forth. I would like to take it a step further in the near future. I’m sure you wouldn’t mind doing so as well.

    I believe the doctrine you espouse plays a role in the creation of lame Christians…since it would be so comforting to tell yourself that your fate is sealed, even while you sin.—–Juan G

    I don’t believe this doctrine creates any false Christians period. Anyone who proclaims to be a Christian who continues to live a continually immoral sinful lifestyle was never truly a Christian to begin with.

    1 John 3:6
    6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him

    To me this is pretty clear that if you truly have been regenerated by God, you won’t continue in sin. I think your objecting to a false reality, which is the “Christian” who continues to live in sin.

    Looking forward to future exchanges. God Bless.

37. There is no trinity mentioned in the Scripture.
    What does it mention? I don’t understand this “adding” to Scripture — and holding to it, dogmatically.
    Can you explain this, please? Thanks—Dan1el

    The trinity is a doctrine that is thoroughly biblical. The doctrine is formulated through a systematic reading of all scripture. Scripture gives the following data:

    1. There is only one God
    2. Three persons in scripture are called God
    (Father, Son, Holy Spirit,)
    3. All three are eternal, uncreated, and were present and involved in the creation.
    4. All three have an active role in the plan of salvation, (past, present and future)
    5. The Father and Son are both prayed to and worshipped as God
    6 All three are distinct from the other. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father
    7 Believers are baptized in the name of all Three

    The doctrine of the trinity best describes all of this data. There’s much more to say but that’s just the basic gist of the idea. http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
    This is a superior explanation which also lists some of the common verses supporting it.(easy read) For a more thorough understanding, including the history of this teaching look here.
    http://bible.org/article/trinity-triunity-god

    One thing that must be remembered is that the human mind can’t fully comprehend how this is true. This is however to be expected since we are dealing with the very nature of God, but just because we can’t fully understand it doesn’t make it any less true. Actually any other alternative ends up creating problems. Hope this helps.

    God bless.

38. “I think your objecting to a false reality, which is the “Christian” who continues to live in sin.” – EDH

    Backsliding is real and dangerous. We’re told to be vigilant, and guard our hearts. Even Jesus had to fend off temptations – the sort of temptations that can lead a Christian to eternal trouble. If I believed “once saved always saved” then temptations would be not be dangerous.

    “I haven’t always believed this doctrine and I’m pretty new to it. I’m completely open to being corrected, but the way to do it is to really thoroughly dive into the texts.” – EDH

    I feel that no matter what I cannot accept that God would violate our freedom to rebel – He’s no tyrant, and we’re no robots. I also don’t think this doctrine fulfills any purpose.

    Before this doctrine people will wonder if they can lose their salvation. After this doctrine people will wonder if they ever really got saved – and are a true Christian. So, at best, it’s just not worth worrying about in my opinion…these doctrines that bring division between peoples and don’t bring anyone closer to God. I’ve debated this doctrine extensively with pastors because I believed it would lead to false comfort – and lukewarm Christians. I believe in a simplier, unifying view of things – which I reckon is still a work in progress, but on this point I don’t think I can be swayed.

39. Everything in scripture works together. Yes we are kept by God’s hand. Yes, we must endure to the end. Yes, there are things we must do at times. Yes, we are saved by grace and not by our works. Yes, salvation is a gift of God by Jesus Christ through faith. Faith is also a gift of God.
    Yes we were elected by God. We were called of God.
    Yes many are called and few are chosen. It all works together.

    There is no word for Trinity in the Bible that I can see. Everything that is necessary for salvation has a specific word for it as far as I can tell.

    Sometimes people call something by another name.

    There are over zealous officers of the law on the Trinitarian side as well as on the One God side.

    I think I’m in a two front war. I think every general fears a two front war.

    Psalm 27 is still good reading for today.

40. There are over zealous officers of the law on the Trinitarian side as well as on the One God side.—-Ray

    Trinitarians believe in ONE God. The trinity just attempts to explain how God is complex in his unity(tri-unity). The trinity is inarguably monotheistic(one God), just as monotheistic as any other view.

    There is no word for Trinity in the Bible that I can see. Everything that is necessary for salvation has a specific word for it as far as I can tell.—Ray

    Correct, trinity is not a word found in the bible. However, that in no way shape or from questions the accuracy of the doctrine(not saying your questioning it). The trinity doctrine is arrived at systematically through the reading of all scripture in the Old and New Testament. It’s simply a word used to describe the data found in scripture. It’s not a man made false doctrine that was first made, and then tried to make fit the scriptures. I would also point out there is no one specific word in scripture that describes God’s unity as it’s revealed throughout the Old and New Testaments.

    There are over zealous officers of the law on the Trinitarian side as well as on the…-Ray

    I’m just trying to help you understand this properly Ray as it’s very important to the Christian faith. There is good reason that this has been so strongly defended from so early in the history of Christianity. Dr. Brown just defended this in a debate last year as a matter of fact.

    Sometimes people call something by another name–Ray

    Very true Ray! Very good point. Before the word “trinity” was used the early followers still believed in the very concept it attempts to describe. The concept would be true even if the word “trinity” never came into existence.

    God Bless. Hopefully God’s truth penetrates all of our hearts.

41. http://www.thechifiles.com — lots of Trinity info.

    Just sayin’. 😉

42. Backsliding is real and dangerous. We’re told to be vigilant, and guard our hearts. ——Juan G.

    I agree backsliding is real and dangerous. By backsliding I mean to lapse and fall backwards in our relationship with God. David backslid in a very big way, but he was still in the faith. Christians can, and do backslide all the time. I just believe it’s impossible to backslide completely out of the faith. If one professes to be a Christian and then falls completely away, I truly don’t believe they were ever a Christian to begin with.

    If I believed “once saved always saved” then temptations would be not be dangerous. Juan G.

    I believe “once saved always saved” and DO believe temptations are dangerous. Every true Christian who holds this belief does.

    I feel that no matter what I cannot accept that God would violate our freedom to rebel – He’s no tyrant, and we’re no robots. I also don’t think this doctrine fulfills any purpose.

    God does let us rebel all the time. The “OSAS” belief doesn’t disagree with this. It’s not like God is holding on to us while we are kicking and screaming to get away from him. We believe God the Spirit melts our hardened hearts so that we have a desire to follow him and keep his commands. Through that transforming love we’re so changed we won’t ever want to reject him. This however doesn’t mean that temptation and sin isn’t a real part of life.

    I also don’t think this doctrine fulfills any purpose.—Juan G.

    I think this truth can help reassure believers in their salvation. If someone who once professed to be a Christian ends up rejecting the faith completely, they’ll know exactly why. I can see Satan and his angels using this to try to put a stumbling block in front of God’s people. Also, if we believe this doctrine is truly biblical, it’s only natural that we’ll defend it against any teaching that says otherwise. Making sure God’s truth is proclaimed is purpose enough. I’m sure you’d agree with that although you disagree with the doctrine itself.

    So, at best, it’s just not worth worrying about in my opinion…these doctrines that bring division between peoples and don’t bring anyone closer to God. Juan G.

    I agree that this is not anything to be extremely worried about. It’s not something that should be argued to the point of possible division.

    Thanks for the kind exchange. God Bless.

43. Lots of Christians will be saved without accepting the term Trinity. They don’t need to grasp whatever it means to be saved. The word Trinity can cause much confusion and God is not the author of confusion.

    Maybe that’s why he didn’t use that word in scripture.

    If a Christain can grasp the concept that God is in Jesus and Jesus is in God, how Jesus abides in the Father and the Father in him, how the spirit of God is the same spirit that is in Christ, that
    God the Father, Jesus, and the holy spirit agree and are one, then it seems to me that they may have no need to use the word Trinity, or even to desire to hear someone try to justify the use of the word Trinity.

    I myself have no interest in hearing people talk to justify why they use the word Trinity.

    It seems I just don’t have an interest in self-righteousness.

    I do believe that a Christian may refer to God as the Triune God. That might be acceptable to God. I really don’t know for sure if that’s what God wants men to do, but I do know that God has given us a lot of liberty in Christ.

    Please understand that many Christians will be put off by the use of the word Trinity, and doing things to drive people out of Church is not what the gospel is necessarily about.

    This whole matter should really come under the authority of Romans 14.

    Lots to think about. Many of the terms Trinitarians are known to use, are used to turn some people out of the Church, in my opinion.

    I don’t know if it’s done by people on purpose or not. God will be the judge of all men.

    The nearest word to the word Trinity that came to me, of all the words used in the Bible that I could think of that could be used for the word Trinity, is Godhead.

    My dicionary talks of Godhood as being related to the word Godhead.

    It seems to me that if one speaks of the Godhead, he may be speaking of the kingdom of heaven. I suppose we could think of the kingdom of heaven as simply the kingdom.

    I think the word kingdom comes close to the word Godhead in meaning.

    The kingdom of heaven is all about God, Jesus, and the holy spirit.

    Are men going to be more interested in appearing before men to be right than in bringing more people into the kingdom?

    I see the idea of Once Saved, Always Saved, as another thing that tends to drive Chrisitans out of church. I believe it can cause a lot of problems. I think it’s something to not preach, teach, or promote. I see it as something to be avoided.

44. Why mention a “Trinity”? It isn’t in Scripture.

    I choose not to add words. Why not simply say what Scripture says — there is a Father, there is a Spirit of the Father; and there is a Son (of the Father) — and leave it at that?

45. Dr. Brown,
    I listened to a debate between yourself and James White.
    One argument that caught me — which I constantly struggle with, even fearing, since it is a question with which I must be very reverential.

    A main point of contention seems to be:
    1. That GOD caused all things to happen; and for people to do good and to do bad
    — if Romans 9:19 is understood correctly —
    2. Yet, GOD is angered by things that people do. 3. God, apparently, LONGS for certain things to be — yet, the does not MAKE them happen: why is this??? Why would someone WANT something to happen; but not MAKE it happen? (Mainly, make ALL people choose Him – rather than “few shall be saved” – HOW can someone MAKE only few be saved; and ALSO be SADDENED by something which HE caused, according to Romans 9:19???)

46. Daniel,
    Can you tell us anything about Hebrews 12:9?

    I know the context is about chastening, but I’m wondering if there’s more.

    Can you ask God about this? Can you write down whatever you seem to be receiving about it and then share it with us? We will be looking for words of praise and things that honor God, for therein we often find the answers we seek.

    God makes the bones of men. He put the marrow inside and connnected the nerves. Everything of man is his and he can do with it as he pleases.

    Also, Can man do anything that is neither of light or of darkness?

47. Lots of Christians will be saved without accepting the term Trinity. They don’t need to grasp whatever it means to be saved. The word Trinity can cause much confusion and God is not the author of confusion.—Ray

    This has been discussed since the very beginning of the Church. I know the doctrine is very important because if you’re not sound in doctrine, your mind often lets you wander into either strange or extreme beliefs. That’s often the case when one denies the trinity, again look at early church history to see how this has happened many times.

    If a Christain can grasp the concept that God is in Jesus and Jesus is in God, how Jesus abides in the Father and the Father in him, how the spirit of God is the same spirit that is in Christ, that
    God the Father, Jesus, and the holy spirit agree and are one, then it seems to me that they may have no need to use the word Trinity, or even to desire to hear someone try to justify the use of the word Trinity.

    Yes, as I pointed out in my last post the very concept was accepted long before the word “trinity” came around. So you are right about that. There were Christians who accepted the biblical teachings that we call the “trinity” before it was even a word. The trinity doctrine was a REACTIONARY doctrine, it came around because there were people who denied what the Bible taught on the nature of God. It was meant to clear up confusion and to show how and why the competing doctrines were heresies.

    It seems I just don’t have an interest in self-righteousness.—Ray

    Merely describing what the Bible teaches, in order to avoid confusion, and false doctrine entering the churches is not being self-righteous. It’s being responsible and proclaiming God’s truth. The fact that it CAN be done in a self-righteous/ungodly way is not at all unique to the doctrine, because ANY biblical teaching can be done in the same way.

    Please understand that many Christians will be put off by the use of the word Trinity, and doing things to drive people out of Church is not what the gospel is necessarily about—RAY

    I understand. You also must understand that the reason this doctrine came up was because there were, false unbiblical beliefs trying to penetrate the Church. This doctrine arose to PROTECT and EDIFY the church. If the very concepts the “trinity” attempts to describe were denied, you would see many people being leaving the church on account of false teaching. I believe most of the “uproar” over the term trinity comes from the fact that people don’t even understand what it’s trying to convey. Had I or any other trinitarian believed some of the things it’s been mistakenly associated with here, I’d be completely outside the faith and believing in what Peter called “destructive” or “damnable” heresies.

    Lots to think about. Many of the terms Trinitarians are known to use, are used to turn some people out of the Church, in my opinion.—Ray

    Whatever these terms are, they’re used to try to explain what the bible is actually teaching. That is, assuming these people actually know what they’re talking about. Hopefully they’re only trying to edify the church with sound doctrine, and shed the church of false teachings similar/identical to those of the past.

    Hopefully this helps to clear things up even more.

    God Bless

48. I see the idea of Once Saved, Always Saved, as another thing that tends to drive Chrisitans out of church.—Ray

    Why do you believe the Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) teaching drives people out of Church?

    I believe it can cause a lot of problems.—Ray

    What problems can/does it cause?

    I think it’s something to not preach, teach, or promote. I see it as something to be avoided.—Ray

    Why?

49. To a lot of Christians the doctrine of the Trinity
    is a poor tool to use to fix whatever problem there may be.

    To many it seems like it is a cause of more problems than it could possibly solve.

    Whenever I hear someone ask, “How could Jesus possibly not know the time when he will return, if he is God?”, I suspect the problem lies not so much in the fact that the scripture says about him, “Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the sceptre of they kingdom.” (Heb 1:8), but rather it’s because the doctrine of the Trinity has had some influence on them.

    Maybe someone will prove me wrong on this, and that the things I’ve suspected in regard to this are not correct.

    So far I have not been convinced. Therefore I have no desire to become a Trinitarian, nor to support and encourage their doctrine.

    I’ve decided to not choose some of their ways.

    Calling Jesus “God the Son” seems to me to add nothing to who he is as the Son of God. Instead, it seems to cause some people trouble that otherwise they would not be having.

    Until someone can convince me otherwise, here I stand. (as a target, I assume)

    As far as what problems can Once Saved, Always Saved cause, how about division?

    I wonder if it’s also another attempt by men to fix another problem by something that’s somewhat foreign? It’s another tool I decided to not be using to establish someone in the gospel, though I might make mention of the phraze at times.

    No doubt that will make me a target for those who wish to take shots at me with such things “You’re trying to be saved by works.”, or by some other such flying objects.

50. “I believe most of the “uproar” over the term trinity comes from the fact that people don’t even understand what it’s trying to convey.” – EDH

    You said yourself that it is impossible to understand what it is trying to convey. How can a man also be God? I have to say I don’t understand it. In the stories about Jesus there is shown much human weakness (weak compared to God, not to other men, that is). Some people say this is Jesus’ humanness showing and that’s true, but God can’t show humanness/weakness. Also Jesus prays to God, he doesn’t operate unilaterally. It makes more sense to me to say that Jesus was a man who lived by the spirit of God, according to the will of God – a manifestation of God. It also seems strange to say that the Holy Spirit is a ‘seperate person’ from God. I tend to think of the Holy Spirit as a manifestation of God (in us) as well. So I see one God and two manifestations of God.
    I also find it strange to think that Jesus, a manifestation of God, died to appease or somehow pay God for our sins. The Bible says Jesus walked around and forgave people (no sacrifice or death involved, just mercy), but people say God has to be paid with Jesus’ blood to accept us. I don’t believe that. I think Jesus forgave people in the same way that God does. It is the grace of God – there is no payment involved with grace. If there was payment, we’d call it business, would we not?

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