I will listen before I comment. But this is a good scripture to consider:
Matthew 5 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Shalom
I posted this in another thread:
I find it interesting that Lot had direct relational access to exactly 10 people including himself. He failed his family and the whole city was lost.
Abraham bargained down to 10. Did he think that Lot should have been doing his job? Did he give up hope for Sodom at the point that a righteous man could not influence even his own family to walk in righteousness?
Is that when YHWH also gives up on a church, city, country, or world? Are we doing better than Lot?
Luke 14 34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Shalom
There remain distinctives given to Lot as well as Abraham. These differ from our own charges and capacities, as such. One would have to compare and contrast what believers represent in this present world, and as to the churches, and what Jesus Christ, and God himself represent. These are qualified in the Pastoral letters to the Churches, the letters to the Jewish belivers, and the Revelation–as well as the original Gospel assurrances of a relationship with the Father, in Christ. We are told by Christ to watch and wait, and to obey, we are not told to judge other than with “right judgement”.
And Jude mentions Sodom and Gomorrah’s jedgment with greater clarity than even the passages of Genesis. Since the King and Kingdom’s Good News our duty is not a specific assignment of conveyance to a specific group of people in a specific situation in a specific time, in direct relationship to us as relatives, where so. Our duty is to the law of Christ, to identification with its particulars of assignment, and to be faithful to the Message and Messenger sent as the Anointed One.
Under the Gifts of the Spirit such knowledge would be directed in particular, not as to what we may “feel” about this group or that one of a related profession. In fact, according to the early Revelation of John to the Churches (as both literally present in Asia and as to the likelyhood of such covering the period of evangelism among the nations) it is Jesus own business to deal with the churches, lest he remove his lampstand from them. Yes, if a word is given for delivery or engagement with such a group: go and deliver such. No, if it is not done with the love of Christ shed abroad in one’s heart through the assignment, where so.
As for the Lord “giving up on” a church, city, country, or world, we live in the time of the Gentiles, with the Gospel going forth for certain. It is written that Jesus will give up after his Millennial rule on those he raises up and judges personally at that time (the Apostles perhaps judging the 12 tribes, and other saints the people of the Nations, as such). Bargaining with God these days on any other terms than the Cross of Jesus Christ is to bark up the wrong tree.
I don’t know exactly what you are saying Jabez.
1 Timothy 5 8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
It seems that even physical needs must be rendered to our direct familial relationships if we are to be considered “in the faith.” How much more is it incumbent upon us to make sure that those of our households are properly evangelized.
Do we really think that sending our children off to public school and college is the Abrahamic way?
Genesis 18 19 For I know him (Abraham), that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
The influence of Sodom on Lots wife, children, and his in-laws was not properly combatted. Maybe Lot should have gotten them out before it was too late. Lot lost his whole family and his whole community for lack of being properly salty. If he wasn’t salty enough to affect his community, he should have moved away with his family so as to no lose them.
If we do not bring true saltiness to the world around us, we and our family, will be adversely affected by it. To have even one child or a wife that is not in the faith and submissive to authority, disqualifies a man from leadership in the assembly. Being “in the world, not of it” must be more than lip service.
Shalom
Folks add salt to their food to give it flavor. You use a light to see in the dark.
Well, we live in a dark world. Sin abounds. When you are filled with the Spirit of Jesus who is light. His light that lives in us will shine in this dark world. It will shine in truth, in peace, in love, in joy. All the fruits of the spirit. Forgive us Lord when we don’t shine for you.
Salt adds flavor to this world. We need to sprinkle the Christ in us in this world just like salt as is to light.
Matthew 5:14-16 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
Again I say…Forgive us Lord when we don’t shine for you.
Bo, I see your point in post #2. But I look at it differently. I look at how the Lord protected the righteous. A foretell of the rapture. That is why I believe in a pre trib rapture. Because of what the Lord did to Lot and to Noah. Took His people out of the mess the world made and protected and saved us.
I will listen before I comment. But this is a good scripture to consider:
Matthew 5
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Shalom
I posted this in another thread:
I find it interesting that Lot had direct relational access to exactly 10 people including himself. He failed his family and the whole city was lost.
Abraham bargained down to 10. Did he think that Lot should have been doing his job? Did he give up hope for Sodom at the point that a righteous man could not influence even his own family to walk in righteousness?
Is that when YHWH also gives up on a church, city, country, or world? Are we doing better than Lot?
Luke 14
34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Shalom
There remain distinctives given to Lot as well as Abraham. These differ from our own charges and capacities, as such. One would have to compare and contrast what believers represent in this present world, and as to the churches, and what Jesus Christ, and God himself represent. These are qualified in the Pastoral letters to the Churches, the letters to the Jewish belivers, and the Revelation–as well as the original Gospel assurrances of a relationship with the Father, in Christ. We are told by Christ to watch and wait, and to obey, we are not told to judge other than with “right judgement”.
And Jude mentions Sodom and Gomorrah’s jedgment with greater clarity than even the passages of Genesis. Since the King and Kingdom’s Good News our duty is not a specific assignment of conveyance to a specific group of people in a specific situation in a specific time, in direct relationship to us as relatives, where so. Our duty is to the law of Christ, to identification with its particulars of assignment, and to be faithful to the Message and Messenger sent as the Anointed One.
Under the Gifts of the Spirit such knowledge would be directed in particular, not as to what we may “feel” about this group or that one of a related profession. In fact, according to the early Revelation of John to the Churches (as both literally present in Asia and as to the likelyhood of such covering the period of evangelism among the nations) it is Jesus own business to deal with the churches, lest he remove his lampstand from them. Yes, if a word is given for delivery or engagement with such a group: go and deliver such. No, if it is not done with the love of Christ shed abroad in one’s heart through the assignment, where so.
As for the Lord “giving up on” a church, city, country, or world, we live in the time of the Gentiles, with the Gospel going forth for certain. It is written that Jesus will give up after his Millennial rule on those he raises up and judges personally at that time (the Apostles perhaps judging the 12 tribes, and other saints the people of the Nations, as such). Bargaining with God these days on any other terms than the Cross of Jesus Christ is to bark up the wrong tree.
I don’t know exactly what you are saying Jabez.
1 Timothy 5
8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
It seems that even physical needs must be rendered to our direct familial relationships if we are to be considered “in the faith.” How much more is it incumbent upon us to make sure that those of our households are properly evangelized.
Do we really think that sending our children off to public school and college is the Abrahamic way?
Genesis 18
19 For I know him (Abraham), that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
The influence of Sodom on Lots wife, children, and his in-laws was not properly combatted. Maybe Lot should have gotten them out before it was too late. Lot lost his whole family and his whole community for lack of being properly salty. If he wasn’t salty enough to affect his community, he should have moved away with his family so as to no lose them.
If we do not bring true saltiness to the world around us, we and our family, will be adversely affected by it. To have even one child or a wife that is not in the faith and submissive to authority, disqualifies a man from leadership in the assembly. Being “in the world, not of it” must be more than lip service.
Shalom
Folks add salt to their food to give it flavor. You use a light to see in the dark.
Well, we live in a dark world. Sin abounds. When you are filled with the Spirit of Jesus who is light. His light that lives in us will shine in this dark world. It will shine in truth, in peace, in love, in joy. All the fruits of the spirit. Forgive us Lord when we don’t shine for you.
Salt adds flavor to this world. We need to sprinkle the Christ in us in this world just like salt as is to light.
Matthew 5:14-16
“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
Again I say…Forgive us Lord when we don’t shine for you.
Bo,
I see your point in post #2. But I look at it differently. I look at how the Lord protected the righteous. A foretell of the rapture. That is why I believe in a pre trib rapture. Because of what the Lord did to Lot and to Noah. Took His people out of the mess the world made and protected and saved us.