What Lines of Work Are Forbidden to Followers of Jesus? (And Some Important Abortion Updates)

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74 Comments
  1. Jesus lives and guides all Christians. Whether they participate in sports or are garbage men.

    A pizza maker is not in the bible. Does that mean we can not eat pizza?

  2. Oh Bob, never mind. I was making a joke.

    But Seriously Bob, I truly mean this. I am glad you have the Lord in your life. I am happy for you that he delivered you out of your bondage.

    I love the Lord too and I am so very grateful He is in my life.

    Lets always thank Him!!! 🙂

  3. Tom says he’s a blackbelt and Bo a wrestler – that’s great. Men should be trained for combat – criminals could very well be versed in combat, so peace-keepers must be also, I think. This isn’t a glorification of violence like MMA.

    As an aside, I would be glad to be trained in close-quarters combat. I’m interested in judo, maybe since my natural reaction to aggression has always been to throw aggressors, and use their weight and motion against them. An acceptable line of work would be training peace-keepers in combat. Surely there is a decent purpose in that.

    “I say from experience that Debbie is totally correct that (obviously) it’s all consensual. That doesn’t make it right of course (like consensual pre-marital sex),…” – Tom

    All of this is irrelevant as you admit.

    “…but Debbie brings up a good point that with MMA you’re not trying to take someone’s rights away with violence.” – Tom

    You are just trying to severely hurt your opponent and make them give up. Of course you’re trying to take their rights away, at least temporarily for your own glory…the goal is complete dominance without any remotely decent cause (bragging rights).

    “Yes, I know people die doing it, but more people die every year…” – Tom

    Your excuse is irrelevant too. If we were talking about gladiators you might say, “well only half of them die anyway…so it’s not all bad”.

    “Jesus lives and guides all Christians. Whether they participate in sports or are garbage men.

    A pizza maker is not in the bible. Does that mean we can not eat pizza?” – Debbie Fraser

    Many who claim to be Christian are not, some who are genuine can be mistaken. Why would a Christian occupy themselves with unproductive pursuits?
    Garbage men and janitors help maintain sanitation – even though we could all be less wasteful – this is very helpful for living. Pizza makers or cooks can make good food – good food is necessary for life.

    Now you explain why or how MMA sports are important and necessary and thus honorable as sanitary and food workers can be.

  4. Thank you Debbie,amen and God bless you.
    Bo,I do celebrate Christmas but I do see your point and I would never debate you.

  5. Juan G,

    Good points. I would like to say that none of my boys have learned to wrestle. Not that it would be a bad thing, but it is unnecessary. They can play volley ball, football, baseball, etc. but have never been on an organized sports team. Lots of reasons for this, but suffice it to say that they are no worse off than had they learned a combative sport or been on a team. They can all cook and do laundry and take out the trash. I guess they are able to do useful things that benefit others. That is what real life is about…loving and blessing YHWH and our fellow man.

    Shalom

  6. Juan
    You truly have a lot to learn about the heart of Jesus. When you said… Many who claim to be Christian are not. You are not kidding about that.

  7. Everyone who disagrees with me about Christians playing sports. Can you do me a favor? Take up this debate up with the Christian athletes. Write, them, text them. Do whatever you need to do.

    As for myself I do not put God in a box. God can use whoever HE wants. Why? Because He is God and we are not.

    I’m done with this debate.

    Smile all…Jesus loves you 🙂

  8. Debbie,

    YHWH used an ass to speak to Balaam, but I’m not so sure I would want to be one. He used a fish to turn Jonah around…wouldn’t want to be one of those either. The issue is not who or what YHWH can use. It is doing His will.

    Shalom

  9. “…but Debbie brings up a good point that with MMA you’re not trying to take someone’s rights away with violence.” – Tom

    You are just trying to severely hurt your opponent and make them give up. Of course you’re trying to take their rights away, at least temporarily for your own glory…the goal is complete dominance without any remotely decent cause (bragging rights).

    By walking in the ring you are, of your own free will, submitting yourself to the rules of the game. Therefore, it is nonsensical to say that your opponent is violently trying to take away your rights in an MMA fight.

    “Yes, I know people die doing it, but more people die every year…” – Tom

    Your excuse is irrelevant too. If we were talking about gladiators you might say, “well only half of them die anyway…so it’s not all bad”.

    All I’m saying is that body count isn’t in-and-of-itself a justification for something being sin. Gladiatorial matches were bad, not because of body count, but because people were trying to kill each other – not so in MMA.

    In any case, I agree with Bob and Bo that MMA is not glorifying to Jesus (just my opinion). But I also agree with Debbie that it’s not good to bind the consciences of others where the scripture hasn’t spoken.

    That’s all.

  10. In the final analysis, I think Paul put it best:

    “Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.” – Phil 4:8 (ESV)

  11. Bo,
    To me there is no better feeling or accomplishment in the world then to have the Lord use you for His glory and for His Kingdom. It makes you feel so alive and fulfilled, just joyful.

    But I also know the Lord can use a non believer for His glory too, except those who do not know Christ will not feel that joy or fulfillment inside.

    We must all remember that we are all sinners saved by grace and we are all a work in progress.

  12. “By walking in the ring you are, of your own free will, submitting yourself to the rules of the game. Therefore, it is nonsensical to say that your opponent is violently trying to take away your rights in an MMA fight.”

    “Gladiatorial matches were bad, not because of body count, but because people were trying to kill each other – not so in MMA.” – Tom

    Well, then, it is nonsensical to say gladiators are trying to kill each other…afterall they agreed (or could agree) to the rules of a game. (…in other words they killed themselves.)

    You say it is wrong to kill, but ok for anyone (including Christians) to harm others (with possibilities of permament damage or death) for no good reason whatsoever? Answer that one very clearly.

    Why wouldn’t we want to bind believers’ consciences with loving one another – with peace? Scripture HAS spoken. Have you rejected its most easily understood teachings?

    “When you said… Many who claim to be Christian are not. You are not kidding about that.” – Debbie Fraser

    Your point is that Jesus would endorse MMA and professional sports. You’re right, I do not know your Jesus.
    There are people claiming to be Christian doing all manner of things – to you this means all of those things are permittable. This is not the case for me.

  13. Juan,
    Just for the record I will not read or respond to any of your post in the future. My Jesus leads me.

  14. Shouldn’t the intent of the MMA fighter be considered when trying to determine if something is sinful or not?

    The point of the competition is to be victorious against your opponent. It is not to hurt, kill or maim, but rather to either submit (the person gives up) or to obtain enough points to be declared the victor. People do get hurt, but the goal of the fighter should not be to desire to cause excessive harm to the other. If a fighter punches someone and knocks them out, then they do feel pain and are hurt, but the intent is not to do as much damage as possible. I think we are missing intent of the christian fighter and holding all accountable to the worse displays of the sport.

  15. “Shouldn’t the intent of the MMA fighter be considered when trying to determine if something is sinful or not?” – Xander

    Sure, so now you have to explain the virtue in pursuing the MMA championship.

    “The point of the competition is to be victorious against your opponent.” – Xander

    Does that mean I can go around picking fights so that I can win? I look at those victories as meaningless, at best, and the effects (injured people) of such pursuits as counter-productive.

    “I think we are missing intent of the christian fighter and holding all accountable to the worse displays of the sport.” – Xander

    The Christian fighter needs to get out of those sports and in to something useful. There are still a lot of problems in the world that people need help with…for example.

  16. What if we looked at the intent of a christian fornicator? I am sure that some would say or think that they were in love. The intent does not make something to be right/righteous that is wrong.

    Acts 17
    30 “Therefore, having overlooked the times of ignorance, God now commands all people everywhere to repent,
    31 because He has set a day on which He is going to judge the world in righteousness by the Man He has appointed. He has provided proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

    Now it might get winked at for the moment by YHWH, but ultimately it needs to be repented of. Someone might be in ignorance, but that does not change the rightness or wrongness of the action. It can change the judgment for the action, though.

    Numbers 15
    28 The priest must then make atonement before the LORD on behalf of the person who acts in error sinning unintentionally, and when he makes atonement for him, he will be forgiven.
    29 You are to have the same law for the person who acts in error, whether he is an Israelite or a foreigner who lives among you.
    30 “But the person who acts defiantly, whether native or foreign resident, blasphemes the LORD. That person is to be cut off from his people.
    31 He will certainly be cut off, because he has despised the LORD’s word and broken His command; his guilt remains on him.”

    Hebrews 10
    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    Y’shua said that remarriage is adultery. Not many remarried couples agree with this idea. There comes a point where YHWH is done winking. The sinner must confess and repent (true repentance requires forsaking the sin) to be forgiven once he knows what the scripture says about any specific sin.

    Proverbs 28
    13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

    Many believers continue in sin simply because we as YHWH’s royal priesthood have failed to know what the word says and/or fail to preach righteousness once we do know.

    Matthew 24
    11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
    12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    In the last days true love for YHWH and our neighbor/brother will wax cold. Why…because of disregard for YHWH’s law. When we have no sure word from the scripture we fall into false “in word only” love. When we reject or ignore the first foundational books of the scripture we are relegated to every man doing what is right in his own carnal eyes, instead of subjecting ourselves to the teaching of YHWH’s perfect law.

    Romans 8
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    2 Timothy 3
    15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    If the scriptures that Timothy knew from childhood (Tanakh) were good enough for Paul to recommend to Timothy (a minister of the new covenant) they should still be good enough for us. We can still have a sure word regarding righteousness and good works.

    Finally:

    Exodus 21
    12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
    13 And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver him into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he shall flee.
    14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.

    18 And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed:
    19 If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.

    I am sure that there is some convoluted way of justifying hurting or killing someone and calling it loving ones neighbor as oneself. The above passages show that there is culpability and accountability for hurting another. That there are some people that like to fight, in the ring or out, makes no difference. A referee and a screaming blood lusting crowd does not make the fighting righteous.

    Extra Finally:

    James 4
    1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
    2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
    3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
    4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
    5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
    6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
    7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
    8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
    9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
    10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

    We can propel ourselves to the top or humble ourselves and let YHWH do it. We can lust for superiority and fame, or let YHWH bring us forth. Fighting comes from lust. I never knew of a fight that was really ONLY for fun…even IF, and that is a big if, it started out that way. Fighting and striving to be the top dog is right up there with adultery, even spiritual adultery, as far as James was concerned. Do we love YHWH or the world?

    Double extra finally:

    Matthew 10
    38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
    39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

    Matthew 16
    23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
    24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
    25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
    26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

    Shalom

  17. Yeah, I’m three years late on this discussion but let me lay it out for anyone who may read this.

    The concept of MMA, like any other sport, is not evil. However, the way it is presented in the UFC, as blood lust is evil. If they shifted the focus from the violence and gore to the athleticism and competition there would be nothing wrong with it.

    God would not endow people with these talents if to use them were sin. Does anyone think Floyd Mayweather’s boxing talent was not given to him from God?

    I watch MMA because I like to see

  18. Yeah, I’m three years late on this discussion but let me lay it out for anyone who may read this.

    The concept of MMA, like any other sport, is not evil. However, the way it is presented in the UFC, as blood lust is evil. If they shifted the focus from the violence and gore to the athleticism and competition there would be nothing wrong with it.

    God would not endow people with these talents if to use them were sin. Does anyone think Floyd Mayweather’s boxing talent was not given to him from God?

    I watch boxing and MMA because i like to see combat technique at the highest level. I also love the drama of seeing a man down and out, and forced to dig deep within himself to win.

    No other sports exemplify the triumph of the human spirit quite like boxing and MMA

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