Nothing deliberately antagonistic of judgmental in the above post. But please encourage your husband to look a little deeper.
Shalom
I like the argument that when our sins are forgiven, we are free from the curse, the shame, of our former state of disobedience, and therefore, there is liberty in uncovering our heads, proclaiming, in fact, our glorious salvation in Yeshua, aka Jesus.
We have no customs in our modern world for which any man need feel ashamed of his wife’s uncovered head. Those customs were simply that: customs of the time. Customs have a strong pull on us, and doubtless, in Paul’s day, such things could cause quite a controversy, especially when they were viewed as markers of social position.
In the present time, with people turning more and more to ancient Hebraic customs, the head-covering may once again become a point of contention, but I think Paul is trying to solve the contention, not add to it.
Praise for your post, Ruth. Thank you.
Ruth,
I think that you should read a few pro-head covering articles before you decide that it is purely a cultural issue.
Shalom
The way Paul solved the contention was to declare what the proper practice was…covered women and uncovered men. If we judge scripture by culture, let’s all put our bikinis on and have a church meeting.
1 Corinthians 14 36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
Bo, I will “read a few pro-head covering articles before” I decide (that it is purely a cultural issue) just to make sure…Peace,
You’re welcome, Sheila, and thanks to you, as well.
Bo, by the way, do you have one or two favorite articles on this subject you could link here?
Ruth,
Did you read the one that Big Tex posted? I like it. This one is the first I read…about 18 years ago:
Modesty in clothing is about us making the effort to wear things so that we would modest. If we can cover our bodies then we should, sometimes there are times when people must allow their bodies to be seen for different reasons. It is my desire to not allow other people to see the body, so that they don’t sin, likewise I desire others would cover their bodies so that I don’t sin, yet what I have come to understand is that those that are new creatures, haved cruficied the lust, so it is dead, and it can’t be alive, rather the spirit is always willing, and always lives, as long we walking by & through the Spirit. This is not just about men, it is also true for women, the lust of the eyes, is a sinful activity of both men, and women, so the flesh must be crucified, made dead, so that we walk in the New Life.
I was born into a church group, where the women had to cover their heads during study, prayer, meeting. There was much concern about head coverings but there seemed to be much less concern for the people under them or around them who were struggling.
Hey Y’all,
Looks like this has become a head covering discussion. Oh well, I guess it relates somehow.
I was wondering if anybody had more thoughts or scriptures on equality of nakedness. Do the same standards apply to the man and woman? Is there a scripture that gives man more leeway than a woman? Has our culture allowed an inequality because of scripture or because of some other philosophy? Will our culture equalize by allowing women the same rights as bare chested men?
I’d like to comment on a likely question by Big Tex, before the head-covering discussion ensued. Those things about stumbling blocks and conforming to Christ, not the world, are all true. But I’d say that Big Tex already knew all that.
Now I’d say that the questions y’all answered are important, and that Big Tex’s question is less dire, but worth asking for sure!
I’m almost certain there are less wealthy people out there (like in Africa, South America, and the early Church as well) turning to Christ, and with just enough of a wardrobe that means only clothes when it gets cold or to keep pestering bugs off them, wearing nothing when the heat is high enough or when passing through water. I’m almost certain there are Christians of all kinds of economic classes who think the same way as the more primitive cultures above. If there’s nudity in extreme summer heat, no one is ignorant of the form of both genders, and still no one has any hangups or notion of being “flashed.”
I think Big Tex’s question boils down to this: what to declare of Christians dressed likewise to primitives listed above. Should we declare them our brothers and sisters in Christ? Or declare their nudity view a heresy and a deal-breaker?
Sheila
Nothing deliberately antagonistic of judgmental in the above post. But please encourage your husband to look a little deeper.
Shalom
I like the argument that when our sins are forgiven, we are free from the curse, the shame, of our former state of disobedience, and therefore, there is liberty in uncovering our heads, proclaiming, in fact, our glorious salvation in Yeshua, aka Jesus.
We have no customs in our modern world for which any man need feel ashamed of his wife’s uncovered head. Those customs were simply that: customs of the time. Customs have a strong pull on us, and doubtless, in Paul’s day, such things could cause quite a controversy, especially when they were viewed as markers of social position.
In the present time, with people turning more and more to ancient Hebraic customs, the head-covering may once again become a point of contention, but I think Paul is trying to solve the contention, not add to it.
Praise for your post, Ruth. Thank you.
Ruth,
I think that you should read a few pro-head covering articles before you decide that it is purely a cultural issue.
Shalom
The way Paul solved the contention was to declare what the proper practice was…covered women and uncovered men. If we judge scripture by culture, let’s all put our bikinis on and have a church meeting.
1 Corinthians 14
36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached?
37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
Bo, I will “read a few pro-head covering articles before” I decide (that it is purely a cultural issue) just to make sure…Peace,
You’re welcome, Sheila, and thanks to you, as well.
Bo, by the way, do you have one or two favorite articles on this subject you could link here?
Ruth,
Did you read the one that Big Tex posted? I like it. This one is the first I read…about 18 years ago:
http://truthinheart.com/EarlyOberlinCD/CD/Doctrine/BeVeiled.htm
Shabbat Shalom
Modesty in clothing is about us making the effort to wear things so that we would modest. If we can cover our bodies then we should, sometimes there are times when people must allow their bodies to be seen for different reasons. It is my desire to not allow other people to see the body, so that they don’t sin, likewise I desire others would cover their bodies so that I don’t sin, yet what I have come to understand is that those that are new creatures, haved cruficied the lust, so it is dead, and it can’t be alive, rather the spirit is always willing, and always lives, as long we walking by & through the Spirit.
This is not just about men, it is also true for women, the lust of the eyes, is a sinful activity of both men, and women, so the flesh must be crucified, made dead, so that we walk in the New Life.
Ruth,
I posted another link on the Feb 19th forum.
http://lineoffireradio.askdrbrown.org/2010/02/19/february-19-2010/comment-page-2/#comment-40781
Shalom
I was born into a church group, where the women had to cover their heads during study, prayer, meeting. There was much concern about head coverings but there seemed to be much less concern for the people under them or around them who were struggling.
Hey Y’all,
Looks like this has become a head covering discussion. Oh well, I guess it relates somehow.
I was wondering if anybody had more thoughts or scriptures on equality of nakedness. Do the same standards apply to the man and woman? Is there a scripture that gives man more leeway than a woman? Has our culture allowed an inequality because of scripture or because of some other philosophy? Will our culture equalize by allowing women the same rights as bare chested men?
I’d like to comment on a likely question by Big Tex, before the head-covering discussion ensued. Those things about stumbling blocks and conforming to Christ, not the world, are all true. But I’d say that Big Tex already knew all that.
Now I’d say that the questions y’all answered are important, and that Big Tex’s question is less dire, but worth asking for sure!
I’m almost certain there are less wealthy people out there (like in Africa, South America, and the early Church as well) turning to Christ, and with just enough of a wardrobe that means only clothes when it gets cold or to keep pestering bugs off them, wearing nothing when the heat is high enough or when passing through water. I’m almost certain there are Christians of all kinds of economic classes who think the same way as the more primitive cultures above. If there’s nudity in extreme summer heat, no one is ignorant of the form of both genders, and still no one has any hangups or notion of being “flashed.”
I think Big Tex’s question boils down to this: what to declare of Christians dressed likewise to primitives listed above. Should we declare them our brothers and sisters in Christ? Or declare their nudity view a heresy and a deal-breaker?