Try to take this to heart. I refuse to prophesy smooth things. Learn form Micaiah. The wide road leads to destruction.
2 Chronicles 18 3 And Ahab king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat king of Judah, Wilt thou go with me to Ramothgilead? And he answered him, I am as thou art, and my people as thy people; and we will be with thee in the war. 4 And Jehoshaphat said unto the king of Israel, Enquire, I pray thee, at the word of the LORD to day. 5 Therefore the king of Israel gathered together of prophets four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for God will deliver it into the king’s hand. 6 But Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the LORD besides, that we might enquire of him? 7 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, by whom we may enquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he never prophesied good unto me, but always evil: the same is Micaiah the son of Imla. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so. 8 And the king of Israel called for one of his officers, and said, Fetch quickly Micaiah the son of Imla. 9 And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah sat either of them on his throne, clothed in their robes, and they sat in a void place at the entering in of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them. 10 And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah had made him horns of iron, and said, Thus saith the LORD, With these thou shalt push Syria until they be consumed. 11 And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramothgilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king. 12 And the messenger that went to call Micaiah spake to him, saying, Behold, the words of the prophets declare good to the king with one assent; let thy word therefore, I pray thee, be like one of theirs, and speak thou good. 13 And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak. 14 And when he was come to the king, the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And he said, Go ye up, and prosper, and they shall be delivered into your hand. 15 And the king said to him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou say nothing but the truth to me in the name of the LORD? 16 Then he said, I did see all Israel scattered upon the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master; let them return therefore every man to his house in peace. 17 And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would not prophesy good unto me, but evil? 18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left. 19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner. 20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? 21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. 22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee. 23 Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee? 24 And Micaiah said, Behold, thou shalt see on that day when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself. 25 Then the king of Israel said, Take ye Micaiah, and carry him back to Amon the governor of the city, and to Joash the king’s son; 26 And say, Thus saith the king, Put this fellow in the prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and with water of affliction, until I return in peace. 27 And Micaiah said, If thou certainly return in peace, then hath not the LORD spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, all ye people.
Jeremiah 4 30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; 31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?
Jeremiah 2 8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
Lamentations 2 14 Thy prophets have seen vain and foolish things for thee: and they have not discovered thine iniquity, to turn away thy captivity; but have seen for thee false burdens and causes of banishment.
Ezekiel 13 2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD; 3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
Ezekiel 22 28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.
Zephaniah 3 4 Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.
Matthew 24 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
Isaiah 30 8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: 11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us. 12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon: 13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
Christmas is a false holiday. Lawlessness abounds in the celebration of it. Love of things and idolatry are strong and love for YHWH and His instructions have grown cold. A lying spirit has caused the prophets and pastors to proclaim falsehood and the people love to have it so. Itching ears love to hear smooth things.
Repent!
Take this to heart:
“note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:”
I do not say shalom, I say Ichabod!
Come out of her!
Revelation 18 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
If verse 3 doesn’t look like Xmas to us, we are the blind leading the blind.
Thank YHWH that there is a small remnant that has not listened to Jezebel and not bowed their knees to Baal.
Judgment in an instant/one day/ one hour…is that what we want? Isaiah 30 and Revelation 18 speak of the same thing…transgression of the law/sin being judged. Will we hear YHWH’s law or not? Will we continue in Babylons sins and idolatrous feasts, of Join YHWH in His? Will we come out or partake of the plagues?
Isaiah 30 8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: 11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us. 12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon: 13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
Revelation 18 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Dr. Brown wrote this: “I find it interesting that Christians around the world often get attacked and persecuted at Christmas time, be it by Hindu radicals or Muslim radicals. These hostile groups clearly associate Christmas with Christianity, and I seriously doubt that God looks down on His precious, persecuted saints at such times and chastises them for not having their calendar right!”
This anecdotal argument does nothing to show what is true. That pagans associate Christmas with Christianity is only because of history and not because they see us doing what the Bible teaches. To whom much is given, much is required.
It is not a matter of YHWH looking down on His precious saints, persecuted or not. It is a matter of being truly holy to YHWH in our actions/celebrations and in our hearts. We can be ignorant, and YHWH will wink at it. If we are persecuted for righteousness sake, it is one thing. If we continue in pagan customs after we know better, or fail to keep YHWH’s Holy days after we know better, then we sin. It just could be that the persecution on Xmas is not necessary. If we would not keep this questionable day and keep the Biblical feasts, we might still get persecuted, but at least it would not be on account of doctrines of men.
1 Peter 3 12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. 13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? 14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness’ sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
Shalom
Bo,
As you recall, I branded some of your first comments on this website as “dangerous,” hence the moniker you used for some time, “Dangerous Bo.”
I just spotted this comment and wanted further clarification from you: “Thank YHWH that there is a small remnant that has not listened to Jezebel and not bowed their knees to Baal.”
Obviously, you believe you are part of this small remnant. Who would you say HAS listened to Jezebel and bowed the knee to Baal? Any believers who do not observe the Torah calendar? Any believers who celebrate Christmas? Me?
Please be as succinct and direct as possible. If you’re going to use language like this, it’s important that others here have no misunderstanding about your views.
Thanks,
Dr. Brown
BO, if I may ask, are you a practicing Seventh-day Adventist? Your dogma seems to be in line with their teachings and beliefs. Your use of the adjective ‘small’ to qualify the word ‘remnant’ is not Biblical, but I discovered that Seventh-day Adventists are not concern with the fact that they do not follow the exact teachings of the Bible. They have other books from a prophetess that they claim has more authority than the Bible.
Dr. Brown,
Philippians 3 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
This is my testimony. I do not count myself as having apprehended, but I press on.
You and I know that there will be many that will say unto Y’shua, “Lord, lord” and be told to depart…even though they cast out demons and did many mighty works in His name. Those that work lawlessness (that do not do the will of the Father) will be cast away.
We know that the way is narrow and the gate straight. We know that to whom much is given, much is required. We both know that the carnal mind will not be able to subject itself to YHWH’s Torah.
Romans 8 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
We know that the apostles never celebrated Xmas, nor did they teach others to do so. We both know that the testimony of Polycrates is that John and the eastern assemblies kept Passover not Easter for at least a hundred years before Rome corrupted them.
The Roman apostasy is still hanging on in protestant assemblies today. Xmas is a leftover of past apostasy. Why is it so hard to come out from obvious error? True love for YHWH has waxed cold. This is evident by lawlessness.
It is not a good argument, or a fair one, to bring up persecuted saints. Persecuted saints have been around a long time. Some of them were persecuted for not keeping Xmas too. It is an emotional appeal, not a scriptural one.
Shalom
Pamela,
I am not, nor ever have been a 7th day adventist. I do not agree that E.G. White writings are to be taken as inspired, nor do I read or practice what she wrote. I accept only the Protestant Cannon of scripture as authoritative.
Bo, your rhetoric sounds distinctly Seventh-day Adventist, taken right out of the books of E.G. White. (I have read some of those demonic books) I can’t think of another church that would strongly espouse the same views that you do while at the same time ignore vast parts of the Bible that state otherwise. They will also when convenient tear apart other verses of the Bible to very stoutly support their own views. It is the sophistication of Satan! The end-all of their doctrine is just as you state… A small remnant will only be saved and they are that small remnant, but that does not include all of their church members, maybe one out ten, right!?!
Thanks Pamela,
You will find that the 7th day adventists think that my views are heretical. They only hold to the 10 commandments and the dietary laws. The rest of YHWH’s Torah is ignored for the most part. They do not say YHWH and Y’Shua. They think that Messiah died on Friday, etc. Of all things, I am not distinctly Seventh-day Adventist. I Do my absolute best to ignore nothing in the Bible. Now the majority of Christian churches ignore the first 2/3rds, but my theme is:
Luke 4 4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
But it appears that you might not even keep the 4th commamdment, let alone the feasts and dietary laws. Am I correct?
Bo, it just seems like you don’t even believe in the Bible. It is just something for you to use to attack people with. You are fighting against immoral behavior in society? No! Every time you write, you always insert something in your writings that blatantly contradict the Bible.
Anyway, your rebellion is against God, not me!
Do you plan on escaping to the hills, too, because the world is going to be overcome in evilness?
A Jezebel spirit is an controlling spirit. It uses sex to control others. A controlling spirit is a form of witchcraft.
A Jezebel spirit seeks control through manipulation. It has a deep hatred of true spiritual authority, and uses emotional pressure, witchcraft and obsessive sensuality in its pursuit of power. It uses subtle persuasion to gain influence and get close to those in control. It then uses this position to gradually dominate.
A Jezebel spirit has nothing to do with folks who adore and give honor to the Lord on Christmas.
Satan knows the word of God, He also twist the word of God too.
God does not control. Love is not controlling.
If you want to know more about Jezebel check out her relationship with King Ahab and Elijah.
A Jezebel spirit would not celebrate Christmas.
Bo,
You did not answer my question. Please re-read my post and give me a clear, direct, and concise answer.
You will not be allowed to use such harsh and accusatory rhetoric in this forum without further clarification.
I’m not asking you for scriptural citations; I’m asking you to answer my question directly. If you’re not able or willing to do, then you either need to retract your earlier post or desist from posting here again in the future.
“Every time you write, you always insert something in your writings that blatantly contradict the Bible.” – Pamela
Looks like you’ll need further clarification with that sort of rhetoric.
“Do you plan on escaping to the hills, too, because the world is going to be overcome in evilness?” – Pamela
You mean like Lot?
“A Jezebel spirit has nothing to do with folks who adore and give honor to the Lord on Christmas.” – Debbie Fraser
I wonder what Christmas really is for you, because if it includes decking the halls with boughs of holly, jingle bells, Christmas trees, egg nog, and so on…well, I just don’t understand how those things relate to the Lord at all. Why bother with irrelevance, impracticality, and waste? Those things hinder you from serving the Lord.
“God does not control.” – Debbie Fraser
True, but God does have rules and He does call for obedience.
Juan, Assuming huh? Did Satan hire you also to attack those who love the Lord?
You assume how others celebrate Christmas? Why is that? You have no clue.
People are truly painting a good picture of who they are. Very, very interesting. Thank you Lord you are nothing like these “attackers”. But I suppose that is how it is to be obedient to the Lord, attack others, huh?
“You will not be allowed to use such harsh and accusatory rhetoric in this forum without further clarification.” – Dr. MLB
Bo has been warning and rebuking anyone who disobeys Torah, including you and me, for a while now. I don’t know how that could be unclear.
I do wonder why this latest development has struck such a nerve with you. If you are truly interested in stopping harsh, unsubstantiated rhetoric fairly I suggest you look to Pamela’s recent comment.
“Assuming huh? Did Satan hire you also to attack those who love the Lord?” – Debbie Fraser
What assumption? What attack?
“You assume how others celebrate Christmas? Why is that? You have no clue.” – Debbie Fraser
What are you talking about?
“People are truly painting a good picture of who they are.” – Debbie Fraser
Are you talking about me?
“But I suppose that is how it is to be obedient to the Lord, attack others, huh?” – Debbie Fraser
If I hung a Christmas tree upside down would you think I was evil? I have not attacked you. I have called some things wasteful, some things you must love dearly. These things are not the Lord and they are not you. Do not make false accusations – do tell us more about your version of Christmas, as I think there are some problems therein. Can you accept constructive criticism?
I do not care about things. I’m not into materialism.
The brethren are suppose to dwell in unity. Not strive. All this bickering about celebrating Christmas dos and don’ts is starting to get old.
Forgive me Lord for getting involved in all this muck.
Juan G.
I don’t read most of the comments here — it’s simply not possible — but I happened to spot Bo’s, which went even further than others I have seen.
I will certainly encourage our monitoring people to review other comments more carefully as well.
Bo and Juan I am so onto you. The Lord showed me.
Whatever that means Debbie???
Dr. Brown,
You wrote: ‘I just spotted this comment and wanted further clarification from you: “Thank YHWH that there is a small remnant that has not listened to Jezebel and not bowed their knees to Baal.”’
This statement was in direct response to Pamela writing: “When do you ever give glory and praise to God? Don’t say ‘Shalom’ to me! Give God your love, praise and thankfulness!” I should have left the word “small” out, as it seems to have caused a big stir. So I retract “small”.
The point was to Pamela. I gave thanks instead of saying shalom. The main body of the post was about false prophets all saying the same thing and not being in line with YHWH’s word. I used the word “remnant” in the context of many prophets/preachers/priests prophesying lies and smooth things and the people loving to have it so. The thought in my mind was that practically the whole world and church around us is practicing a non-scriptural holiday that is full of man made, pagan, and even Baalish symbols and ignoring YHWH’s word as to the real feasts of YHWH. Thus the Isaiah 30 quote which has many similarities to Revelation 18.
The main Idea was: “That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits” and that destruction will come very quickly and unexpectedly. This is why the call in Revelation is to come out of Babylonian systems of worship.
There are no such things as neutral religious elements. They are from above or from below. YHWH says not to add to His word. There is nothing in the Word about Xmas and trees and 12/25 on the pagan calendar. The apostles did not proclaim Xmas as a feast to YHWH.
I used the word “Jezebel” to drive the point home that Y’Shua sees idolatrous feasts and fornication, both physical and spiritual, as something that should be completely eradicated from His assemblies. This false prophetess (Jezebel) brings idolatrous feasts into the worship of YHWH and fornication (attachments to non-scriptural worship and celebrations) into the assembly. Jezebel and Babylon cause those that continue in their doctrines (fornication) to receive tribulation/plagues.
If we won’t get rid of Jezebel from our assemblies, they will become Babylonian harlots from which we will need to leave, if we expect to escape the judgment that surly comes upon her.
Revelation 2 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Revelation 18 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Hopefully you can see the spiritual fornication issue as huge as it appears to be in these two passages. We would be very foolish to not take it very seriously. The assumption that whatever Christians did in the past must be correct, is what keeps pagan, or at least non-Biblical, practices alive. The commandments of men are even said to make our worship vain. (Mark 7:7)
You wrote: “Obviously, you believe you are part of this small remnant. Who would you say HAS listened to Jezebel and bowed the knee to Baal? Any believers who do not observe the Torah calendar? Any believers who celebrate Christmas? Me?”
As I tried to explain above, I do not count myself as having apprehended. I see myself, as Paul so beautifully penned in Philippians, as one that is pressing on to the mark of the high calling. I think that all of us have, at least in the past, listened to false prophets. If someone does not know of the feasts of YHWH, it does not mean that they have bowed to Baal. YHWH still winks at our ignorance, but He also calls us to repent of our assumptions and our man made worship. (Acts 17:30)
There are many Baalish symbols and practices in Xmas. I do not know if you have cast them aside. I do know that teachers will receive a “greater condemnation” if they do not be very careful in what they approve. Teachers can cause many to feel justified in their non-scriptural practices. They must be very careful to speak only those things that scripture speaks.
I do not judge you or those that celebrate Xmas. I admonish you to come out of man made and pagan practices. If there is a way to do that and celebrate Xmas, great. If not, throw the whole thing away.
My personal testimony is that it is not possible to celebrate Xmas with no man made or pagan practices. Make a list of the things you do on 12/25. Search the scripture and history to find out what things can stay. Ask yourself if the remaining items are spirit and truth. Ask yourself if only doing the remaining things are really about Xmas of just good things to do everyday. Finally ask yourself if 12/25 on a pagan calendar has anything at all to do with the true day of Messiah’s birth and if the name “Christmas” is even appropriate. If there is anything left that you find to be truly a feast to YHWH, keep it in fear and trembling.
Philippians 2 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
You wrote: “Please be as succinct and direct as possible. If you’re going to use language like this, it’s important that others here have no misunderstanding about your views.”
Sorry for the lack of succinctness. But I think that I was very direct and explained my position. If you want me to stop posting on this topic or all topics, I will graciously comply. I respect your position of authority and ownership of this site. If you still do not think that I have answered, ask for clarification and I’ll try again.
This is starting to remind me of John 10:22-39. If my posts are in line with the whole of scripture, deal with it. If my posts are the ravings of a mad man, ignore me. But please do not stone me. Character assassination does nothing to further the cause of loving the truth.
Shalom
Bo,
Thanks for your response, which is far more temperate than the statement I questioned. So, for the sake of constructive and Christlike interaction here, I’m asking you to tone down the rhetoric and just address the issues — without accusing other believers of being hell-bound idolaters. We’ll hold others to the same standard.
As for Christmas, it’s a total non-issue to me personally, but the discussion surrounding it is of interest to me.
Bo, One day when the time is right I’ll explain what I meant.
I’ll say one thing for sure…You make me laugh. Not in a bad way. Your spirit is very sweet but sometimes the words you say are very hard.
Can not wait until when Easter comes. By the way I hang up poster board signs on telephone poles at Easter time that says..”Happy Resurrection Day”
Remember that when the “Easter” discussion comes up in April. I’m sure there will be one, right Dr Brown?
Dr. Brown,
Thanks, I meant no accusation and by no means intended to say that anyone posting on this site was hell-bound. Only YHWH knows that.
That said, we all need to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. There are slippery slopes in this area. Abstaining from all appearance of evil is a good rule to follow.
1 Thessalonians 5 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
We need to be sanctified in body and soul too…not just spirit. In order for that to happen we need to know what the Scripture says and put it into practice. May our celebrations be truly blameless in all three categories. It is not only the thought or heart that counts.
Shalom
He is risen. He is risen indeed. HalleluYah!
Bo,
Thanks for the clarification, and amen to exalting Jesus! As for 1 Thes 5:22, please check this in other translations and the Greek. It really refers to every form of evil as to the appearance of evil. That being said, 1 Thes 5:23 calls us to sanctification of spirit, soul, and body. Amen to that as well.
For those interested in a pretty thorough treatment (that is, debunking) of the myths associated with the history of Christmas, check out the December 2007 and December 2010 episodes of the Unbelievable radio program available here:
I didn’t find what you pointed to yet, Tom, but, from that same link and page, I found something incredible and am downloading it. A debate between Hawkins, Craig, Shermer, Rabbi Wolpe and others on “Does the Universe Have a Purpose”. Awesome find!!
I still can’t find anything about the debunking of myths and the history of Christmas. Can you better point me to it?
Thanks.
Sure, it’s the December 25th 2010 broadcast. Click the link and scroll down about 1/3 to 1/2 way down to “listen on demand” and find the December 25th, 2010 broadcast titled: “Christmas Cracker”.
Also it is on iTunes; if you subscribe to “Unbelievable” you can search by topic.
The bottom line about Xmas is that it is man made at best. It is man doing what is right in his own eyes. It is based on a false date on a man made calendar. It thrives through man’s sentimentalities and peer pressure. Though it is not a Jewish fable…it is a commandment of men that turns from the truth.
Titus 1 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
It is vain worship.
Mark 7 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men…
Amazing how men find all kinds of reasons, even religious sounding ones, to fashion “golden calves” to supposedly worship YHWH. There is nothing new under the sun.
Exodus 32 4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the YHWH.
Just like Aaron proclaimed a false feast to YHWH, the Roman Church did the same. The difference is that it has been perpetuated by protestants and heathens for way too long. YHWH pronounced His feasts in Leviticus 23. Xmas is not one of them. The apostles did not announce Xmas as a feast to YHWH either. It is man made apostasy.
Jereboam invented feast days. It was a sin.
1 Kings 12 32 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.
YHWH looks for those that will worship Him in spirit and in truth. Xmas is not truth. It is a man invented feast on a man made date. Just like Jeroboam’s feast was. It produces vain worship. Or said another way, we worship we know not what.
John 4 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The only way to know for sure, what we worship, is to go by the scripture. Then it will be in truth. Xmas is not in the scripture. The appointed times of YHWH are. So we can obey traditions and commandments of men that turn from the truth, or we can obey YHWH’s word that is truth.
Joshua 24 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
AS for me and my house we will keep YHWH’s feasts and ignore man’s. This is quite the opposite of the way the world does it. What will you do?
Shalom
In light of the following verses, should we continue to invent our own feast days?
Jeremiah 17 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Proverbs 14 12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Proverbs 21 2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts. 3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.
1 Samuel 15 22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
Hosea 4 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
It certainly is not for the children’s sake that we continue to celebrate Xmas and ignore YHWH’s feasts.
Shalom
Bo,
It continues to amaze me how you prostitute the word of God.
Tom, that is inflammatory and unacceptable on this site.
Dr. Brown,
Please note the above comment by Tom.
Shabbat Shalom
My choice of words was poor, I apologize – my statement could have been expressed more appropriately. That said, it was an accurate statement.
Prostitute: to put something to an unworthy or corrupt use for personal gain.
This would include taking verses out of context and insisting they prove your assertions when in fact they do no such thing (and in many cases actually disprove it).
Let’s look at what you have said to determine if it meets this definition:
Though [Christmas] is not a Jewish fable…it is a commandment of men that turns from the truth.
Titus 1 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
You left out: “For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced since they are upsetting whole families and teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach.” – Titus 1.10-11 ESV
Sounds familiar.
And after your citation, Paul continues: “To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.” – Titus 1.15
If you read the verse in the context you ripped it from to put to your own use, you will find that it is the circumcision party, i.e. Judaizers who are the “people who turn away from the truth”.
Hmmm. Food for thought.
It is vain worship.
Mark 7 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men…
Ironic that, in the context, Jesus is also here talking about those of the circumcision party – and if you read a few more verses down we find Him saying “Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” – Mark 7.18b-19
But you, Bo, would have us ignore that to continue to observe the dietary laws.
Amazing how men find all kinds of reasons, even religious sounding ones, to fashion “golden calves” to supposedly worship YHWH. There is nothing new under the sun.
Exodus 32 4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the YHWH.
It was not for worshipping YHWH in a “strange way” that these people were condemned, it was worshiping the golden calf, as God says to Moses, “[The people] have turned aside quickly out of the way that I commanded them. They have made for themselves a golden calf and have worshipped it and sacrificed to it and said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!'” – Exodus 32.8
Christians do not worship Christmas trees (or any of the other things) or offer sacrifices to them. Nor do we claim them as our gods and proclaim that they have saved us or done good things for us. This Exodus passage can in no way apply to our modern Christmas practices and it is only by ripping it out of its context that you can make it seem so. Given the whole context it quickly becomes clear that this event and the Christian Christmas are totally different.
Just like Aaron proclaimed a false feast to YHWH, the Roman Church did the same. The difference is that it has been perpetuated by protestants and heathens for way too long. YHWH pronounced His feasts in Leviticus 23. Xmas is not one of them. The apostles did not announce Xmas as a feast to YHWH either. It is man made apostasy.
Aaron made a golden image to be bowed to and worshipped and sacrificed to and adored – the Church has done nothing of the sort.
Two words, Bo: New Covenant. Deal with it.
Jereboam invented feast days. It was a sin.
1 Kings 12 32 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.
This one seems to be the most egregious, because if you actually read the whole account it becomes clear that your usage of it to prove your point is extremely presumptuous, and borders (crosses over, I’d say) on sheer abuse of the text.
The account details how Jeroboam:
a) deliberately turned the people away from YHWH (for his own personal gain and consolidation of power) – vv 26-28
b) created idols for the people to worship in place of YHWH – vv 28-30
c) bypassed the Levitical priesthood to institute a rival system and built his own temples – v 31
d) and on his self-appointed feast days he sacrificed animals to the idols – vv 32-33
The feast wasn’t even for YHWH in the first place! Not only that, but it was a celebration of idols (which Paul tells us is demon worship)!! So saying that Christians are being like Jeroboam is utter nonsense. In the context, this is so unlike Christian Christmas practices that there is virtually no parallel at all – and you have to rip verses out of context to use them to argue your case.
I could go on, but hopefully I’ve sufficiently demonstrated the importance of CONTEXT and how you can not isolate verses to prove things like this because: A TEXT WITHOUT CONTEXT IS A MERE PRETEXT FOR A PROOFTEXT.
So, again, my choice of words was poor, for that everyone has my apologies. My statement stands, however. And I know that Bo will not listen to what I am saying, but to all reading this, I urge you: use your critical thinking skills. Examine the context and discern what the passages he uses are really saying instead of allowing him to interpret them for you and lead you to “accept again the yoke of slavery”.
Tom ~ Excellent! I enjoyed reading that!
Tom,
Thanks for apologizing for the choice of words, and please be kind enough to keep up the important discussion with Bo and others here without the use of such accusatory statements in the future. It is crucial for online discussion in a forum like this to maintain a Christlike decorum in keeping with Eph 4:29.
Again, thanks!
Yes sir, will do!
Bo, In reading your words here I have the impression that your perceive all allsuion to practices of faith and celebration in Jesus name which develop in cutures outside of the Judah/Israel Biblically bound Mosaic culture, as being evil (for they are set in any other particular nation’s own developed traditions. So, those converted in other lands, with other history, other linguistics, language, frames of reference and relevant meanings of their understanding are simply not acceptable to you (ane I am not writing here of blatant devotion to other named so-called Gods or entities, apart from a faith in Christ. So, it seems that whatever culturally outside of Israel/Judah which has evolved in time and space is reduced to something having to do with commandments in the Torah. Correct me if I misunderstand you.
So, for example, you see the singing of Carols of adoration at Dec. 25th as “commandment” breaking, and so when assemblies among the nations gather in his name to so celebrate Him, in their own languages, costumes, time developed church assoications, and relevance? What does it mean then when God looks at the heart? Is it possible in your theology to find room for people of faith and the liberty spoken of by Paul in Galations who are not thinking as to an orientation of reference to “commandments”, but to what they discover inside and among other believers as the being Way of Christ, as may be found beholding and hearing HIM, as is set in the virtuous adoration of His being through the Holy Spirit in residence in a person (not then as a whole way of living constantly primarily being mindful of “commandments”)???
To me the spirit of Christmas is not about commercialism, or merchandizing, but about adoration, warmth, kindness, and fellowship. You seem to hold that there is commandment law against these.
Bo, Correct me if I misunderstand your theology being Mosaic religious culture bound. It should be interesting watching Israel in this decade redefining its own National identity and Heritage, per Netanyahu’s vision and adherence to honing Israel’s existential moral truth in international relations and its own way of living. How will the various Temple resource development movements, the New Sanhedrin, and the quest for Israel’s own integrity fit with your definition of commandment conformity, and how not–if Israel again erects an Altar on Mt. Moriah? How would that act of Biblical obedience differ from simple souls in Asia or Russia gathering at Christmas to recall the birth of Jesus the Christ in your view?
Tom, very good points
Bo,
If we were to follow your logic we would assume that you are saying that Jesus is a “false” God. How can you hold to your argument when it is against Christ?
Are we, in fact, bowing our knee to Baal at Christmas?—No
Are we making an image representing another God to worship?—No
Are we singing hymns and worshipping with our hearts and mouths another God?—No
Are we praising the Father and the Son at Christmas?—Yes
Is Christ worthy of our praise and adoration—Yes
Where is the “other” God in this celebration?
A PARABLE
There were once two brothers, youthful and full of vigor. They went everywhere together and were alike in all respects that any two people can be. Their father, being a powerful man, lived in another region from whence he exercised his authority. His sons were left in one another’s care hundreds of miles away, and their father provided for their needs by sending food and clothes from where he reigned.
Now, a war broke out, and the area where these two brothers lived was overtaken by barbarians. The brothers were forced into a concentration camp to share quarters with dangerous scoundrels where danger abounded. Not only was there danger from other people, but there was also the matter of the rampant diseases plaguing the community, as it is wont to do in such times of war. Wonderfully, thanks to the kind and wise actions of their father, each of these brothers had been vaccinated against the illnesses that surrounded them since the time they were infants.
Their father continued to send food, knowing that some of it would find its way to his children, and indeed it did. For a time they sustained themselves on the provisions without challenge. One day, however, the warden of this camp caught wind of what was happening. He found out about the food that was being sent for the brothers and resolved to stop it. He tried all sorts of measures, but somehow the food always reached them. Then he had an idea. If he couldn’t get rid of the provisions, he could at least try and make the children get rid of them themselves.
The next package of food that arrived for the brothers, he snatched away from them and opened it, pulling out the provisions one by one and spitting on each item. When he had finished, he returned the box to the brothers and marched off.
“What shall we do?” said the older to the younger. “This evil man has contaminated our supplies, surely we cannot eat them now – lest we die of the diseases that he surely carries.”
The younger took his provisions from the box and ate, giving thanks to his father who – though from a distance – had provided for his needs.
From that time forward, every time a box of provisions would arrive, the warden would take it and spit on every item as he had before. Weeks went by, and the older brother wasted slowly away, having resolved to himself not to even touch the food, let alone consume it. He said to himself and his brother: “This food is now tainted, if we eat of it, we will surely die. Our father loves us, and would grieve if we were to perish; therefore, let us abstain from this contaminated food lest we contract that man’s disease.”
Meanwhile the younger brother gave thanks at every meal, knowing that because of his beloved father’s past actions on his behalf he was shielded from all of the warden’s diseases. He ate and was strengthened.
After a long time, peace was finally achieved, and the boys’ father came searching for them to take them out of the evil place they had been imprisoned and bring them to live with him. When he found them, the younger brother was as strong and full of vigor as ever – he embraced his father, overjoyed. But the older brother was emaciated, and he could barely raise his gaunt face in his father’s presence – an actual embrace would have crushed him, so frail was he.
“Why did you not eat of the provisions I sent to you?” his father asked. The boy had not the strength to respond, so his younger brother told their father of the evil warden and his ploy to stop the brothers from receiving their father’s gifts with joy and thanksgiving. Upon hearing this, their father turned again to the older brother. “You know that I love you, and you sought to preserve your life for my sake. In this you have done well, for surely I do love you and would have mourned greatly if you were lost to me. I commend you for this.”
The older boy smiled, dry lips cracking and bleeding as his mouth curved upwards. But his father was not done.
“You have done well, but your brother has done better, for he trusted in what I have already done for you – when you were yet infants I vaccinated you both against all the diseases that the warden could possibly carry. Because you sought to do my will, that is, to keep yourself alive, you are commended – though through your lack of faith you nearly died. Because your brother has placed his faith in me and my protection, and ate what I sent to be received with thanksgiving and thus was sustained; he is commended all the more.”
I will explain this parable – but first, would anyone else like to take a crack at what it means?
“If we were to follow your logic we would assume that you are saying that Jesus is a “false” God.” – Sheila
I don’t follow…could you give us the sequence of logic in question?
“Where is the “other” God in this celebration?” – Sheila
Could it be in the unmentioned elements of your celebration? What are your thoughts on things like Christmas trees and houses covered in lights?
I’ll try to take a crack at this Tom.
Guess 1) Older brother represents those who do not trust completely in Father God. Because they have fear. Results is their life is not blessed. They have no joy, no zeal in life. They trust in their own thoughts because of fear.
Younger brother represents those who trust in Father God no matter what negative is thrown at them. Results in a blessed and joyful life.
Guess 2)It could be this too…
Older brother represents Adam who was disobedient to Father God. His life represents death.
Younger brother represents Jesus (2ND Adam). He trusted and was obedient to Father God and had abundant life.
I could have some holes in my guesses that might need to be filled in.
Forgive me for guessing twice. But you know how it is when thoughts come out of ya.
Sheila, your thoughts are His thoughts, or,
You might have to carefully reframe your reference to “Christ” with a different term for the same reference for Bo to understand your point here, although referenced of the original NT language. After all, it would be a reference not faithful to the pure Mosaic culture’s observance of associated commandments by a reference to the Meshiac in not purely Hebrew cultural terms (i.e. to the Messiah, or the Gk. Christ anointed One). But we all know that such a reference is pagan anyway, apparently so according to the only valid Biblical culture’s commandments being of faith’s reference, as such??? Apparently, even Handel’s famous adoration work of an Anglicanized title would not measure up to exclusively conveyed Mosaic Commandments standards involved in arriving at such a superior position as Bo has???
Such seems to be the logic too for support among some recent Hebrew roots movements. So, I request Dr. Brown helping us all out here by offering a solid comparing and contrasting list as to the chosen covenant Nation’s related observances vs. the Nations’ observances and the season recently past. This could be as to what has been gained in the relatively recent theological history of these Hebrew roots movements, and what has been lost in assuming its outlook relative to this forum: of the elements and attributes of practicing a supposed Christian faith’s observances of Christmas among the nations, as contrasted with these movement’s reverting to pure Mosaic practices for their own claimed visitation recognition (if we then reduce such an outlook on the Christ to the preMessianic visitation understanding of a Mosaic observance vs. what is commonly practiced in churches in the nations as to observances of a Christ Advent season. Where are these reconcilable, and where not? What then is lost or gained accordingly? Or is the outcome of each instance really about a loss and gain of truth vs. grace at all? Or, are other principles being acted upon than what constitutes a literal faith when practicing either kind of observances?). Is there only one rightly detailed interpretation of how then to live and what religious practices to make after the Gospel was proclaimed?
Could an alliance with the core beliefs of these movements then represent some new form of assumed privilege, or be a holy calling to the only true faith? Is faith faith in the work of Christ, or faith in one’s observances reckoning some achieved position in Christ? Is it possible to reckon an achieved position in Christ without ongoing grace? What would be the accompanying yoke for adherents to either Christianity, as such is found practiced in the nations, or using the law as a template for associating a Messianic faith standard? In practice, could such a movement be being formulated by some to suppose one’s own likes and dislikes of practice are the only right way to God (and so as projected into then from the commandments given the Nation of the Exodus, viewed as believed superior, then carried forth into a view that all others’ faith observances under Christ not so composed must be blasphemy? In practice then would not such a position become in fact blasphemy of the Holy Spirit’s work so regarded in others’ hearts by the assumption of a position’s own factioning of a related judgment)? Where has such insistence attributed to Satan the work of the Holy Spirit, and where not so? How would this be determined so as to labeling the practices of faith existing of others, supposed “Christians” found among the nations, being instead the stuff of evil? What were the ways contributing to the woes Jesus spoke over the Scribes and Pharisees? What is the New and Living Way written to the Hebrews?
nice exegesis
Try to take this to heart. I refuse to prophesy smooth things. Learn form Micaiah. The wide road leads to destruction.
2 Chronicles 18
3 And Ahab king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat king of Judah, Wilt thou go with me to Ramothgilead? And he answered him, I am as thou art, and my people as thy people; and we will be with thee in the war.
4 And Jehoshaphat said unto the king of Israel, Enquire, I pray thee, at the word of the LORD to day.
5 Therefore the king of Israel gathered together of prophets four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for God will deliver it into the king’s hand.
6 But Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the LORD besides, that we might enquire of him?
7 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, by whom we may enquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he never prophesied good unto me, but always evil: the same is Micaiah the son of Imla. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so.
8 And the king of Israel called for one of his officers, and said, Fetch quickly Micaiah the son of Imla.
9 And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah sat either of them on his throne, clothed in their robes, and they sat in a void place at the entering in of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them.
10 And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah had made him horns of iron, and said, Thus saith the LORD, With these thou shalt push Syria until they be consumed.
11 And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramothgilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king.
12 And the messenger that went to call Micaiah spake to him, saying, Behold, the words of the prophets declare good to the king with one assent; let thy word therefore, I pray thee, be like one of theirs, and speak thou good.
13 And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak.
14 And when he was come to the king, the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And he said, Go ye up, and prosper, and they shall be delivered into your hand.
15 And the king said to him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou say nothing but the truth to me in the name of the LORD?
16 Then he said, I did see all Israel scattered upon the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master; let them return therefore every man to his house in peace.
17 And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would not prophesy good unto me, but evil?
18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.
19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
23 Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?
24 And Micaiah said, Behold, thou shalt see on that day when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself.
25 Then the king of Israel said, Take ye Micaiah, and carry him back to Amon the governor of the city, and to Joash the king’s son;
26 And say, Thus saith the king, Put this fellow in the prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and with water of affliction, until I return in peace.
27 And Micaiah said, If thou certainly return in peace, then hath not the LORD spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, all ye people.
Jeremiah 4
30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?
Jeremiah 2
8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
Lamentations 2
14 Thy prophets have seen vain and foolish things for thee: and they have not discovered thine iniquity, to turn away thy captivity; but have seen for thee false burdens and causes of banishment.
Ezekiel 13
2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;
3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
Ezekiel 22
28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.
Zephaniah 3
4 Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.
Matthew 24
11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
Isaiah 30
8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
Christmas is a false holiday. Lawlessness abounds in the celebration of it. Love of things and idolatry are strong and love for YHWH and His instructions have grown cold. A lying spirit has caused the prophets and pastors to proclaim falsehood and the people love to have it so. Itching ears love to hear smooth things.
Repent!
Take this to heart:
“note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:”
I do not say shalom, I say Ichabod!
Come out of her!
Revelation 18
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
If verse 3 doesn’t look like Xmas to us, we are the blind leading the blind.
Thank YHWH that there is a small remnant that has not listened to Jezebel and not bowed their knees to Baal.
Judgment in an instant/one day/ one hour…is that what we want? Isaiah 30 and Revelation 18 speak of the same thing…transgression of the law/sin being judged. Will we hear YHWH’s law or not? Will we continue in Babylons sins and idolatrous feasts, of Join YHWH in His? Will we come out or partake of the plagues?
Isaiah 30
8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
Revelation 18
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Dr. Brown wrote this:
“I find it interesting that Christians around the world often get attacked and persecuted at Christmas time, be it by Hindu radicals or Muslim radicals. These hostile groups clearly associate Christmas with Christianity, and I seriously doubt that God looks down on His precious, persecuted saints at such times and chastises them for not having their calendar right!”
This anecdotal argument does nothing to show what is true. That pagans associate Christmas with Christianity is only because of history and not because they see us doing what the Bible teaches. To whom much is given, much is required.
It is not a matter of YHWH looking down on His precious saints, persecuted or not. It is a matter of being truly holy to YHWH in our actions/celebrations and in our hearts. We can be ignorant, and YHWH will wink at it. If we are persecuted for righteousness sake, it is one thing. If we continue in pagan customs after we know better, or fail to keep YHWH’s Holy days after we know better, then we sin. It just could be that the persecution on Xmas is not necessary. If we would not keep this questionable day and keep the Biblical feasts, we might still get persecuted, but at least it would not be on account of doctrines of men.
1 Peter 3
12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness’ sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
Shalom
Bo,
As you recall, I branded some of your first comments on this website as “dangerous,” hence the moniker you used for some time, “Dangerous Bo.”
I just spotted this comment and wanted further clarification from you: “Thank YHWH that there is a small remnant that has not listened to Jezebel and not bowed their knees to Baal.”
Obviously, you believe you are part of this small remnant. Who would you say HAS listened to Jezebel and bowed the knee to Baal? Any believers who do not observe the Torah calendar? Any believers who celebrate Christmas? Me?
Please be as succinct and direct as possible. If you’re going to use language like this, it’s important that others here have no misunderstanding about your views.
Thanks,
Dr. Brown
BO, if I may ask, are you a practicing Seventh-day Adventist? Your dogma seems to be in line with their teachings and beliefs. Your use of the adjective ‘small’ to qualify the word ‘remnant’ is not Biblical, but I discovered that Seventh-day Adventists are not concern with the fact that they do not follow the exact teachings of the Bible. They have other books from a prophetess that they claim has more authority than the Bible.
Dr. Brown,
Philippians 3
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
This is my testimony. I do not count myself as having apprehended, but I press on.
You and I know that there will be many that will say unto Y’shua, “Lord, lord” and be told to depart…even though they cast out demons and did many mighty works in His name. Those that work lawlessness (that do not do the will of the Father) will be cast away.
We know that the way is narrow and the gate straight. We know that to whom much is given, much is required. We both know that the carnal mind will not be able to subject itself to YHWH’s Torah.
Romans 8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
We know that the apostles never celebrated Xmas, nor did they teach others to do so. We both know that the testimony of Polycrates is that John and the eastern assemblies kept Passover not Easter for at least a hundred years before Rome corrupted them.
The Roman apostasy is still hanging on in protestant assemblies today. Xmas is a leftover of past apostasy. Why is it so hard to come out from obvious error? True love for YHWH has waxed cold. This is evident by lawlessness.
It is not a good argument, or a fair one, to bring up persecuted saints. Persecuted saints have been around a long time. Some of them were persecuted for not keeping Xmas too. It is an emotional appeal, not a scriptural one.
Shalom
Pamela,
I am not, nor ever have been a 7th day adventist. I do not agree that E.G. White writings are to be taken as inspired, nor do I read or practice what she wrote. I accept only the Protestant Cannon of scripture as authoritative.
Bo, your rhetoric sounds distinctly Seventh-day Adventist, taken right out of the books of E.G. White. (I have read some of those demonic books) I can’t think of another church that would strongly espouse the same views that you do while at the same time ignore vast parts of the Bible that state otherwise. They will also when convenient tear apart other verses of the Bible to very stoutly support their own views. It is the sophistication of Satan! The end-all of their doctrine is just as you state… A small remnant will only be saved and they are that small remnant, but that does not include all of their church members, maybe one out ten, right!?!
Thanks Pamela,
You will find that the 7th day adventists think that my views are heretical. They only hold to the 10 commandments and the dietary laws. The rest of YHWH’s Torah is ignored for the most part. They do not say YHWH and Y’Shua. They think that Messiah died on Friday, etc. Of all things, I am not distinctly Seventh-day Adventist. I Do my absolute best to ignore nothing in the Bible. Now the majority of Christian churches ignore the first 2/3rds, but my theme is:
Luke 4
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
But it appears that you might not even keep the 4th commamdment, let alone the feasts and dietary laws. Am I correct?
Bo, it just seems like you don’t even believe in the Bible. It is just something for you to use to attack people with. You are fighting against immoral behavior in society? No! Every time you write, you always insert something in your writings that blatantly contradict the Bible.
Anyway, your rebellion is against God, not me!
Do you plan on escaping to the hills, too, because the world is going to be overcome in evilness?
A Jezebel spirit is an controlling spirit. It uses sex to control others. A controlling spirit is a form of witchcraft.
A Jezebel spirit seeks control through manipulation. It has a deep hatred of true spiritual authority, and uses emotional pressure, witchcraft and obsessive sensuality in its pursuit of power. It uses subtle persuasion to gain influence and get close to those in control. It then uses this position to gradually dominate.
A Jezebel spirit has nothing to do with folks who adore and give honor to the Lord on Christmas.
Satan knows the word of God, He also twist the word of God too.
God does not control. Love is not controlling.
If you want to know more about Jezebel check out her relationship with King Ahab and Elijah.
A Jezebel spirit would not celebrate Christmas.
Bo,
You did not answer my question. Please re-read my post and give me a clear, direct, and concise answer.
You will not be allowed to use such harsh and accusatory rhetoric in this forum without further clarification.
I’m not asking you for scriptural citations; I’m asking you to answer my question directly. If you’re not able or willing to do, then you either need to retract your earlier post or desist from posting here again in the future.
“Every time you write, you always insert something in your writings that blatantly contradict the Bible.” – Pamela
Looks like you’ll need further clarification with that sort of rhetoric.
“Do you plan on escaping to the hills, too, because the world is going to be overcome in evilness?” – Pamela
You mean like Lot?
“A Jezebel spirit has nothing to do with folks who adore and give honor to the Lord on Christmas.” – Debbie Fraser
I wonder what Christmas really is for you, because if it includes decking the halls with boughs of holly, jingle bells, Christmas trees, egg nog, and so on…well, I just don’t understand how those things relate to the Lord at all. Why bother with irrelevance, impracticality, and waste? Those things hinder you from serving the Lord.
“God does not control.” – Debbie Fraser
True, but God does have rules and He does call for obedience.
Juan,
Assuming huh? Did Satan hire you also to attack those who love the Lord?
You assume how others celebrate Christmas? Why is that? You have no clue.
People are truly painting a good picture of who they are. Very, very interesting. Thank you Lord you are nothing like these “attackers”. But I suppose that is how it is to be obedient to the Lord, attack others, huh?
“You will not be allowed to use such harsh and accusatory rhetoric in this forum without further clarification.” – Dr. MLB
Bo has been warning and rebuking anyone who disobeys Torah, including you and me, for a while now. I don’t know how that could be unclear.
I do wonder why this latest development has struck such a nerve with you. If you are truly interested in stopping harsh, unsubstantiated rhetoric fairly I suggest you look to Pamela’s recent comment.
“Assuming huh? Did Satan hire you also to attack those who love the Lord?” – Debbie Fraser
What assumption? What attack?
“You assume how others celebrate Christmas? Why is that? You have no clue.” – Debbie Fraser
What are you talking about?
“People are truly painting a good picture of who they are.” – Debbie Fraser
Are you talking about me?
“But I suppose that is how it is to be obedient to the Lord, attack others, huh?” – Debbie Fraser
If I hung a Christmas tree upside down would you think I was evil? I have not attacked you. I have called some things wasteful, some things you must love dearly. These things are not the Lord and they are not you. Do not make false accusations – do tell us more about your version of Christmas, as I think there are some problems therein. Can you accept constructive criticism?
I do not care about things. I’m not into materialism.
The brethren are suppose to dwell in unity. Not strive. All this bickering about celebrating Christmas dos and don’ts is starting to get old.
Forgive me Lord for getting involved in all this muck.
Juan G.
I don’t read most of the comments here — it’s simply not possible — but I happened to spot Bo’s, which went even further than others I have seen.
I will certainly encourage our monitoring people to review other comments more carefully as well.
Bo and Juan I am so onto you. The Lord showed me.
Whatever that means Debbie???
Dr. Brown,
You wrote:
‘I just spotted this comment and wanted further clarification from you: “Thank YHWH that there is a small remnant that has not listened to Jezebel and not bowed their knees to Baal.”’
This statement was in direct response to Pamela writing: “When do you ever give glory and praise to God? Don’t say ‘Shalom’ to me! Give God your love, praise and thankfulness!” I should have left the word “small” out, as it seems to have caused a big stir. So I retract “small”.
The point was to Pamela. I gave thanks instead of saying shalom. The main body of the post was about false prophets all saying the same thing and not being in line with YHWH’s word. I used the word “remnant” in the context of many prophets/preachers/priests prophesying lies and smooth things and the people loving to have it so. The thought in my mind was that practically the whole world and church around us is practicing a non-scriptural holiday that is full of man made, pagan, and even Baalish symbols and ignoring YHWH’s word as to the real feasts of YHWH. Thus the Isaiah 30 quote which has many similarities to Revelation 18.
The main Idea was: “That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits” and that destruction will come very quickly and unexpectedly. This is why the call in Revelation is to come out of Babylonian systems of worship.
There are no such things as neutral religious elements. They are from above or from below. YHWH says not to add to His word. There is nothing in the Word about Xmas and trees and 12/25 on the pagan calendar. The apostles did not proclaim Xmas as a feast to YHWH.
I used the word “Jezebel” to drive the point home that Y’Shua sees idolatrous feasts and fornication, both physical and spiritual, as something that should be completely eradicated from His assemblies. This false prophetess (Jezebel) brings idolatrous feasts into the worship of YHWH and fornication (attachments to non-scriptural worship and celebrations) into the assembly. Jezebel and Babylon cause those that continue in their doctrines (fornication) to receive tribulation/plagues.
If we won’t get rid of Jezebel from our assemblies, they will become Babylonian harlots from which we will need to leave, if we expect to escape the judgment that surly comes upon her.
Revelation 2
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Revelation 18
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Hopefully you can see the spiritual fornication issue as huge as it appears to be in these two passages. We would be very foolish to not take it very seriously. The assumption that whatever Christians did in the past must be correct, is what keeps pagan, or at least non-Biblical, practices alive. The commandments of men are even said to make our worship vain. (Mark 7:7)
You wrote:
“Obviously, you believe you are part of this small remnant. Who would you say HAS listened to Jezebel and bowed the knee to Baal? Any believers who do not observe the Torah calendar? Any believers who celebrate Christmas? Me?”
As I tried to explain above, I do not count myself as having apprehended. I see myself, as Paul so beautifully penned in Philippians, as one that is pressing on to the mark of the high calling. I think that all of us have, at least in the past, listened to false prophets. If someone does not know of the feasts of YHWH, it does not mean that they have bowed to Baal. YHWH still winks at our ignorance, but He also calls us to repent of our assumptions and our man made worship. (Acts 17:30)
There are many Baalish symbols and practices in Xmas. I do not know if you have cast them aside. I do know that teachers will receive a “greater condemnation” if they do not be very careful in what they approve. Teachers can cause many to feel justified in their non-scriptural practices. They must be very careful to speak only those things that scripture speaks.
I do not judge you or those that celebrate Xmas. I admonish you to come out of man made and pagan practices. If there is a way to do that and celebrate Xmas, great. If not, throw the whole thing away.
My personal testimony is that it is not possible to celebrate Xmas with no man made or pagan practices. Make a list of the things you do on 12/25. Search the scripture and history to find out what things can stay. Ask yourself if the remaining items are spirit and truth. Ask yourself if only doing the remaining things are really about Xmas of just good things to do everyday. Finally ask yourself if 12/25 on a pagan calendar has anything at all to do with the true day of Messiah’s birth and if the name “Christmas” is even appropriate. If there is anything left that you find to be truly a feast to YHWH, keep it in fear and trembling.
Philippians 2
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
You wrote:
“Please be as succinct and direct as possible. If you’re going to use language like this, it’s important that others here have no misunderstanding about your views.”
Sorry for the lack of succinctness. But I think that I was very direct and explained my position. If you want me to stop posting on this topic or all topics, I will graciously comply. I respect your position of authority and ownership of this site. If you still do not think that I have answered, ask for clarification and I’ll try again.
This is starting to remind me of John 10:22-39. If my posts are in line with the whole of scripture, deal with it. If my posts are the ravings of a mad man, ignore me. But please do not stone me. Character assassination does nothing to further the cause of loving the truth.
Shalom
Bo,
Thanks for your response, which is far more temperate than the statement I questioned. So, for the sake of constructive and Christlike interaction here, I’m asking you to tone down the rhetoric and just address the issues — without accusing other believers of being hell-bound idolaters. We’ll hold others to the same standard.
As for Christmas, it’s a total non-issue to me personally, but the discussion surrounding it is of interest to me.
Bo,
One day when the time is right I’ll explain what I meant.
I’ll say one thing for sure…You make me laugh. Not in a bad way. Your spirit is very sweet but sometimes the words you say are very hard.
Can not wait until when Easter comes. By the way I hang up poster board signs on telephone poles at Easter time that says..”Happy Resurrection Day”
Remember that when the “Easter” discussion comes up in April. I’m sure there will be one, right Dr Brown?
Dr. Brown,
Thanks, I meant no accusation and by no means intended to say that anyone posting on this site was hell-bound. Only YHWH knows that.
That said, we all need to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. There are slippery slopes in this area. Abstaining from all appearance of evil is a good rule to follow.
1 Thessalonians 5
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
We need to be sanctified in body and soul too…not just spirit. In order for that to happen we need to know what the Scripture says and put it into practice. May our celebrations be truly blameless in all three categories. It is not only the thought or heart that counts.
Shalom
He is risen. He is risen indeed. HalleluYah!
Bo,
Thanks for the clarification, and amen to exalting Jesus! As for 1 Thes 5:22, please check this in other translations and the Greek. It really refers to every form of evil as to the appearance of evil. That being said, 1 Thes 5:23 calls us to sanctification of spirit, soul, and body. Amen to that as well.
For those interested in a pretty thorough treatment (that is, debunking) of the myths associated with the history of Christmas, check out the December 2007 and December 2010 episodes of the Unbelievable radio program available here:
http://www.premier.org.uk/unbelievable
I didn’t find what you pointed to yet, Tom, but, from that same link and page, I found something incredible and am downloading it. A debate between Hawkins, Craig, Shermer, Rabbi Wolpe and others on “Does the Universe Have a Purpose”. Awesome find!!
I still can’t find anything about the debunking of myths and the history of Christmas. Can you better point me to it?
Thanks.
Sure, it’s the December 25th 2010 broadcast. Click the link and scroll down about 1/3 to 1/2 way down to “listen on demand” and find the December 25th, 2010 broadcast titled: “Christmas Cracker”.
Also it is on iTunes; if you subscribe to “Unbelievable” you can search by topic.
The bottom line about Xmas is that it is man made at best. It is man doing what is right in his own eyes. It is based on a false date on a man made calendar. It thrives through man’s sentimentalities and peer pressure. Though it is not a Jewish fable…it is a commandment of men that turns from the truth.
Titus 1
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
It is vain worship.
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men…
Amazing how men find all kinds of reasons, even religious sounding ones, to fashion “golden calves” to supposedly worship YHWH. There is nothing new under the sun.
Exodus 32
4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the YHWH.
Just like Aaron proclaimed a false feast to YHWH, the Roman Church did the same. The difference is that it has been perpetuated by protestants and heathens for way too long. YHWH pronounced His feasts in Leviticus 23. Xmas is not one of them. The apostles did not announce Xmas as a feast to YHWH either. It is man made apostasy.
Jereboam invented feast days. It was a sin.
1 Kings 12
32 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.
YHWH looks for those that will worship Him in spirit and in truth. Xmas is not truth. It is a man invented feast on a man made date. Just like Jeroboam’s feast was. It produces vain worship. Or said another way, we worship we know not what.
John 4
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The only way to know for sure, what we worship, is to go by the scripture. Then it will be in truth. Xmas is not in the scripture. The appointed times of YHWH are. So we can obey traditions and commandments of men that turn from the truth, or we can obey YHWH’s word that is truth.
Joshua 24
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
AS for me and my house we will keep YHWH’s feasts and ignore man’s. This is quite the opposite of the way the world does it. What will you do?
Shalom
In light of the following verses, should we continue to invent our own feast days?
Jeremiah 17
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Proverbs 14
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Proverbs 21
2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.
3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.
1 Samuel 15
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
Hosea 4
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
It certainly is not for the children’s sake that we continue to celebrate Xmas and ignore YHWH’s feasts.
Shalom
Bo,
It continues to amaze me how you prostitute the word of God.
Tom, that is inflammatory and unacceptable on this site.
Dr. Brown,
Please note the above comment by Tom.
Shabbat Shalom
My choice of words was poor, I apologize – my statement could have been expressed more appropriately. That said, it was an accurate statement.
Prostitute: to put something to an unworthy or corrupt use for personal gain.
This would include taking verses out of context and insisting they prove your assertions when in fact they do no such thing (and in many cases actually disprove it).
Let’s look at what you have said to determine if it meets this definition:
You left out: “For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced since they are upsetting whole families and teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach.” – Titus 1.10-11 ESV
Sounds familiar.
And after your citation, Paul continues: “To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.” – Titus 1.15
If you read the verse in the context you ripped it from to put to your own use, you will find that it is the circumcision party, i.e. Judaizers who are the “people who turn away from the truth”.
Hmmm. Food for thought.
Ironic that, in the context, Jesus is also here talking about those of the circumcision party – and if you read a few more verses down we find Him saying “Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” – Mark 7.18b-19
But you, Bo, would have us ignore that to continue to observe the dietary laws.
It was not for worshipping YHWH in a “strange way” that these people were condemned, it was worshiping the golden calf, as God says to Moses, “[The people] have turned aside quickly out of the way that I commanded them. They have made for themselves a golden calf and have worshipped it and sacrificed to it and said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!'” – Exodus 32.8
Christians do not worship Christmas trees (or any of the other things) or offer sacrifices to them. Nor do we claim them as our gods and proclaim that they have saved us or done good things for us. This Exodus passage can in no way apply to our modern Christmas practices and it is only by ripping it out of its context that you can make it seem so. Given the whole context it quickly becomes clear that this event and the Christian Christmas are totally different.
Aaron made a golden image to be bowed to and worshipped and sacrificed to and adored – the Church has done nothing of the sort.
Two words, Bo: New Covenant. Deal with it.
This one seems to be the most egregious, because if you actually read the whole account it becomes clear that your usage of it to prove your point is extremely presumptuous, and borders (crosses over, I’d say) on sheer abuse of the text.
The account details how Jeroboam:
a) deliberately turned the people away from YHWH (for his own personal gain and consolidation of power) – vv 26-28
b) created idols for the people to worship in place of YHWH – vv 28-30
c) bypassed the Levitical priesthood to institute a rival system and built his own temples – v 31
d) and on his self-appointed feast days he sacrificed animals to the idols – vv 32-33
The feast wasn’t even for YHWH in the first place! Not only that, but it was a celebration of idols (which Paul tells us is demon worship)!! So saying that Christians are being like Jeroboam is utter nonsense. In the context, this is so unlike Christian Christmas practices that there is virtually no parallel at all – and you have to rip verses out of context to use them to argue your case.
I could go on, but hopefully I’ve sufficiently demonstrated the importance of CONTEXT and how you can not isolate verses to prove things like this because: A TEXT WITHOUT CONTEXT IS A MERE PRETEXT FOR A PROOFTEXT.
So, again, my choice of words was poor, for that everyone has my apologies. My statement stands, however. And I know that Bo will not listen to what I am saying, but to all reading this, I urge you: use your critical thinking skills. Examine the context and discern what the passages he uses are really saying instead of allowing him to interpret them for you and lead you to “accept again the yoke of slavery”.
Tom ~ Excellent! I enjoyed reading that!
Tom,
Thanks for apologizing for the choice of words, and please be kind enough to keep up the important discussion with Bo and others here without the use of such accusatory statements in the future. It is crucial for online discussion in a forum like this to maintain a Christlike decorum in keeping with Eph 4:29.
Again, thanks!
Yes sir, will do!
Bo, In reading your words here I have the impression that your perceive all allsuion to practices of faith and celebration in Jesus name which develop in cutures outside of the Judah/Israel Biblically bound Mosaic culture, as being evil (for they are set in any other particular nation’s own developed traditions. So, those converted in other lands, with other history, other linguistics, language, frames of reference and relevant meanings of their understanding are simply not acceptable to you (ane I am not writing here of blatant devotion to other named so-called Gods or entities, apart from a faith in Christ. So, it seems that whatever culturally outside of Israel/Judah which has evolved in time and space is reduced to something having to do with commandments in the Torah. Correct me if I misunderstand you.
So, for example, you see the singing of Carols of adoration at Dec. 25th as “commandment” breaking, and so when assemblies among the nations gather in his name to so celebrate Him, in their own languages, costumes, time developed church assoications, and relevance? What does it mean then when God looks at the heart? Is it possible in your theology to find room for people of faith and the liberty spoken of by Paul in Galations who are not thinking as to an orientation of reference to “commandments”, but to what they discover inside and among other believers as the being Way of Christ, as may be found beholding and hearing HIM, as is set in the virtuous adoration of His being through the Holy Spirit in residence in a person (not then as a whole way of living constantly primarily being mindful of “commandments”)???
To me the spirit of Christmas is not about commercialism, or merchandizing, but about adoration, warmth, kindness, and fellowship. You seem to hold that there is commandment law against these.
Bo, Correct me if I misunderstand your theology being Mosaic religious culture bound. It should be interesting watching Israel in this decade redefining its own National identity and Heritage, per Netanyahu’s vision and adherence to honing Israel’s existential moral truth in international relations and its own way of living. How will the various Temple resource development movements, the New Sanhedrin, and the quest for Israel’s own integrity fit with your definition of commandment conformity, and how not–if Israel again erects an Altar on Mt. Moriah? How would that act of Biblical obedience differ from simple souls in Asia or Russia gathering at Christmas to recall the birth of Jesus the Christ in your view?
Tom, very good points
Bo,
If we were to follow your logic we would assume that you are saying that Jesus is a “false” God. How can you hold to your argument when it is against Christ?
Are we, in fact, bowing our knee to Baal at Christmas?—No
Are we making an image representing another God to worship?—No
Are we singing hymns and worshipping with our hearts and mouths another God?—No
Are we praising the Father and the Son at Christmas?—Yes
Is Christ worthy of our praise and adoration—Yes
Where is the “other” God in this celebration?
A PARABLE
There were once two brothers, youthful and full of vigor. They went everywhere together and were alike in all respects that any two people can be. Their father, being a powerful man, lived in another region from whence he exercised his authority. His sons were left in one another’s care hundreds of miles away, and their father provided for their needs by sending food and clothes from where he reigned.
Now, a war broke out, and the area where these two brothers lived was overtaken by barbarians. The brothers were forced into a concentration camp to share quarters with dangerous scoundrels where danger abounded. Not only was there danger from other people, but there was also the matter of the rampant diseases plaguing the community, as it is wont to do in such times of war. Wonderfully, thanks to the kind and wise actions of their father, each of these brothers had been vaccinated against the illnesses that surrounded them since the time they were infants.
Their father continued to send food, knowing that some of it would find its way to his children, and indeed it did. For a time they sustained themselves on the provisions without challenge. One day, however, the warden of this camp caught wind of what was happening. He found out about the food that was being sent for the brothers and resolved to stop it. He tried all sorts of measures, but somehow the food always reached them. Then he had an idea. If he couldn’t get rid of the provisions, he could at least try and make the children get rid of them themselves.
The next package of food that arrived for the brothers, he snatched away from them and opened it, pulling out the provisions one by one and spitting on each item. When he had finished, he returned the box to the brothers and marched off.
“What shall we do?” said the older to the younger. “This evil man has contaminated our supplies, surely we cannot eat them now – lest we die of the diseases that he surely carries.”
The younger took his provisions from the box and ate, giving thanks to his father who – though from a distance – had provided for his needs.
From that time forward, every time a box of provisions would arrive, the warden would take it and spit on every item as he had before. Weeks went by, and the older brother wasted slowly away, having resolved to himself not to even touch the food, let alone consume it. He said to himself and his brother: “This food is now tainted, if we eat of it, we will surely die. Our father loves us, and would grieve if we were to perish; therefore, let us abstain from this contaminated food lest we contract that man’s disease.”
Meanwhile the younger brother gave thanks at every meal, knowing that because of his beloved father’s past actions on his behalf he was shielded from all of the warden’s diseases. He ate and was strengthened.
After a long time, peace was finally achieved, and the boys’ father came searching for them to take them out of the evil place they had been imprisoned and bring them to live with him. When he found them, the younger brother was as strong and full of vigor as ever – he embraced his father, overjoyed. But the older brother was emaciated, and he could barely raise his gaunt face in his father’s presence – an actual embrace would have crushed him, so frail was he.
“Why did you not eat of the provisions I sent to you?” his father asked. The boy had not the strength to respond, so his younger brother told their father of the evil warden and his ploy to stop the brothers from receiving their father’s gifts with joy and thanksgiving. Upon hearing this, their father turned again to the older brother. “You know that I love you, and you sought to preserve your life for my sake. In this you have done well, for surely I do love you and would have mourned greatly if you were lost to me. I commend you for this.”
The older boy smiled, dry lips cracking and bleeding as his mouth curved upwards. But his father was not done.
“You have done well, but your brother has done better, for he trusted in what I have already done for you – when you were yet infants I vaccinated you both against all the diseases that the warden could possibly carry. Because you sought to do my will, that is, to keep yourself alive, you are commended – though through your lack of faith you nearly died. Because your brother has placed his faith in me and my protection, and ate what I sent to be received with thanksgiving and thus was sustained; he is commended all the more.”
I will explain this parable – but first, would anyone else like to take a crack at what it means?
“If we were to follow your logic we would assume that you are saying that Jesus is a “false” God.” – Sheila
I don’t follow…could you give us the sequence of logic in question?
“Where is the “other” God in this celebration?” – Sheila
Could it be in the unmentioned elements of your celebration? What are your thoughts on things like Christmas trees and houses covered in lights?
I’ll try to take a crack at this Tom.
Guess 1)
Older brother represents those who do not trust completely in Father God. Because they have fear. Results is their life is not blessed. They have no joy, no zeal in life. They trust in their own thoughts because of fear.
Younger brother represents those who trust in Father God no matter what negative is thrown at them. Results in a blessed and joyful life.
Guess 2)It could be this too…
Older brother represents Adam who was disobedient to Father God. His life represents death.
Younger brother represents Jesus (2ND Adam). He trusted and was obedient to Father God and had abundant life.
I could have some holes in my guesses that might need to be filled in.
Forgive me for guessing twice. But you know how it is when thoughts come out of ya.
Sheila, your thoughts are His thoughts, or,
You might have to carefully reframe your reference to “Christ” with a different term for the same reference for Bo to understand your point here, although referenced of the original NT language. After all, it would be a reference not faithful to the pure Mosaic culture’s observance of associated commandments by a reference to the Meshiac in not purely Hebrew cultural terms (i.e. to the Messiah, or the Gk. Christ anointed One). But we all know that such a reference is pagan anyway, apparently so according to the only valid Biblical culture’s commandments being of faith’s reference, as such??? Apparently, even Handel’s famous adoration work of an Anglicanized title would not measure up to exclusively conveyed Mosaic Commandments standards involved in arriving at such a superior position as Bo has???
Such seems to be the logic too for support among some recent Hebrew roots movements. So, I request Dr. Brown helping us all out here by offering a solid comparing and contrasting list as to the chosen covenant Nation’s related observances vs. the Nations’ observances and the season recently past. This could be as to what has been gained in the relatively recent theological history of these Hebrew roots movements, and what has been lost in assuming its outlook relative to this forum: of the elements and attributes of practicing a supposed Christian faith’s observances of Christmas among the nations, as contrasted with these movement’s reverting to pure Mosaic practices for their own claimed visitation recognition (if we then reduce such an outlook on the Christ to the preMessianic visitation understanding of a Mosaic observance vs. what is commonly practiced in churches in the nations as to observances of a Christ Advent season. Where are these reconcilable, and where not? What then is lost or gained accordingly? Or is the outcome of each instance really about a loss and gain of truth vs. grace at all? Or, are other principles being acted upon than what constitutes a literal faith when practicing either kind of observances?). Is there only one rightly detailed interpretation of how then to live and what religious practices to make after the Gospel was proclaimed?
Could an alliance with the core beliefs of these movements then represent some new form of assumed privilege, or be a holy calling to the only true faith? Is faith faith in the work of Christ, or faith in one’s observances reckoning some achieved position in Christ? Is it possible to reckon an achieved position in Christ without ongoing grace? What would be the accompanying yoke for adherents to either Christianity, as such is found practiced in the nations, or using the law as a template for associating a Messianic faith standard? In practice, could such a movement be being formulated by some to suppose one’s own likes and dislikes of practice are the only right way to God (and so as projected into then from the commandments given the Nation of the Exodus, viewed as believed superior, then carried forth into a view that all others’ faith observances under Christ not so composed must be blasphemy? In practice then would not such a position become in fact blasphemy of the Holy Spirit’s work so regarded in others’ hearts by the assumption of a position’s own factioning of a related judgment)? Where has such insistence attributed to Satan the work of the Holy Spirit, and where not so? How would this be determined so as to labeling the practices of faith existing of others, supposed “Christians” found among the nations, being instead the stuff of evil? What were the ways contributing to the woes Jesus spoke over the Scribes and Pharisees? What is the New and Living Way written to the Hebrews?