Out off all these headings, I am most interested in the Nephilim…well and Yeshua 🙂 Rush Limbaugh? really. Might as well talk about Hannity and Savage…
RE: Nephilim
I would hesitate to go as far as the caller went with his assertions on the nephilim/ufo connection but there does seem to be biblical evidence for the nephilim and a connection with demons/evil people.
IMO the correct definition is Giants as in mumbers with the correct spelling with the yod present. Giants as in 6 or 7 foot people not 30 or 40.
Bashan was a place noted in both the Hebrew Bible and Ugaritic as a nephilim stronghold (cf. Num 21, 32; Deut. 3; Josh.9).
It brings to mind Our Lords words on the cross about the bulls of bashan, which i believe is a reference to demons/principalities or powers.
So i dont think it so easy to laugh off as it may first appear but i certainly would not want to address it in public before being certain but there is evidence for the linkage there. As for little green men, No.
May God bless the bakery that decided not to encourage the gay agenda by baking specially (sorry ’bout that, sometimes I don’t know how to say a thing) cookies.
I have no evidence that tells me that Rush Limbaugh is not born again, even though he might or might not know Jesus. He might know him very little or he might know him more. I just don’t know much about this.
It’s one thing to be born again and another thing to know Jesus, but since this was about Jesus and Rush Limbaugh, I thought to comment on this in this way.
Let’s remember that once a person is born again, it doesn’t necessarily mean that he will not be deceived. Didn’t Jesus say that many will say he is the Christ, and yet deceive many? (Matthew 24:5) At least I think this is what Jesus was saying here. Someone else may have another interpretation, but this is what it looks like Jesus was saying, to me.
So how do I know if a person is born again? If I hear them speak in tongues I believe they are born again. This of course does not mean that they can not deceive, or be deceived.
I do not believe that one who is not born again can speak in tongues though such a person may try to convince someone that they do even though they do not. Even some born again Christians have fallen into that either through ignorance or by something else.
If I had someone in front of me sitting in a chair and I asked them to speak in tongues and they knew another language, one that I do not understand and they began to roll their eyes around, look to the ceiling, and speak whatever they could think of to say in that language as an attempt to trick me, I’m not so sure I would be fooled, even though some people do very well at persistent talking.
Nevertheless they should be known by their fruit even if they do not speak in tongues. Even so, sometimes I just don’t know.
Doesn’t the scripture say that if we knew God we would not sin? I’m not sure where this is in scripture. It’s possible to have once known God and then to have lost that knowledge isn’t it?
Though the Bible doesn’t say that the giants were the offspring of the godly who began to degenerate mixing in with the worldly and marrying the worldly, I found that in my 1599 Geneva Bible there is a footnote (throughout this Bible there are a great number of footnotes by those called the reformers of that era) on Genesis 6:2 about the sons of God, and it reads “The children of the godly which began to degenerate.” This seems to fit the context for when men began to call upon the name of the Lord, didn’t they begin to learn of the Lord and be led by the spirit of wisdom?
And isn’t it so that when God’s people fall away they tend to degenerate and become worse than others who knew not God? It seems to me that in many ways they have. It’s happened before.
Now, it doesn’t say that the giants were of the sons of God that began to degerate (as we may suppose) but we know that there were giants in those days.
I had once wondered if that meant dinosaurs or included dinosaurs, but I think it’s talking about men.
Why they were big, I don’t know, but when I read the footnotes of the 1599 Geneva Bible, I began to realize that viewpoints change over time and that there are modern day teachings that seem to me to be something that wasn’t taught or known in an earlier era.
It seems to me that the teaching of angles marrying men and producing giants as offspring is a teaching that either is a modern day teaching, or something that though it were heard hundreds or more years earlier, if indeed it was, didn’t have the influence that it holds today upon the church.
That’s what it looks like to me at this time.
I’ve never seen a UFO but I have seen something I would like to mention. I’ve never seen anything like it since and I doubt if many people have seen this kind of display.
I do not believe it was northern lights. I just saw on TV a film on nature which showed what I believe to be northern lights. I have seen pictures of northern lights in school books. I have seen what I believe to be northern lights. I grew up in Minnesota where northern lights have been seen in the winter.
What I saw in the sky was seen by four of us. We were all Christians and were involved in good communication concerning the scriptures. Someone saw something in the sky overhead and we all looked at it. It was directly overhead so we all layed down on the ground and watched it. It was just getting dark and what it looked like is a circle about the size of a full moon or slightly smaller. It was a perfect circle and inside this circle was nothing seen but the sky. Around this perfect circle shape were colored waves of light that spread out all around it’s circumference.
The man whose place (rural farm) we were visiting at said it wasn’t northern lights. We layed down on the ground and one of us said, “OK God. Give us a show.” And we were entertained. The lights began to slowly give a greater display. This went on for about ten minutes or so and disappeared.
We all thought it was some kind of show God gave us, some kind of display of his glory.
I still wonder if it could have been northern lights but everything I have seen or heard about that doesn’t seem to fit. I do not believe it was northern lights.
None of us thought it was a UFO. At least nobody ever said that it was.
About the giants of Genesis 6… I wonder if all the people of that day were larger than people of today. I had heard someone say that they believe they were, thus explaining the “giants in the earth in those days.”
There was a man named Ron Wyatt who also claimed to have found something of Noah’s ark, the remains of it, something described as a boat shaped object, petrified rock. He’s the one who also said he found some evidence that men were larger in the days of Noah. He seemed to say that Noah was a larger man then men of today. If so, that would make building an ark a bit easier I think. The ark of Noah is quite a project considering that he didn’t have diesel dozers, trucks, forklifts, and cranes.
Interesting, but I don’t know for sure why the giants. I do trust that the sons of God of Genesis 6:2 were the godly men, the ones who called upon the name of the Lord, gave glory to him, worshipped him, and received from him such gifts as prudence, discretion, good sense, and the knowledge of God.
These mighty men of old, men of renoun, I suppose to have become as tyrants filled with wickedness and that they greatly influenced the earth in a bad way.
I don’t know if all the men were known to have been large (giants) or only a few. I just don’t know.
Dear Dr. Brown,
I certainly realize that each preacher, evangelist, and specialist has limited broad knowledge and are highly focused in one particular area, yours being semitic languages and your personal testimony. I am undeterred, however, even though you could barely hold back your laughter and your thoughts of, “Oh boy, here’s another nut case” when you were talking about the question concerning interdimensional flying aircraft. And I feel certain, too, that you don’t want to open up what you might view as a can of worms. But, that’s alright because when I was first saved, my friends and some family felt that I had checked my brains at the door when I confessed that Jesus is Lord of heaven and earth. So, you see, I’ve become immune to others mocking me.
I recently purchased your DVD on “Angels, Demons and Deliverance” and while you seem to expect a one hundred fold increase in demonic activity at the end of the age, I think you said, and I’m paraphrasing, “Demonic activity will be so common place that people won’t think anything of it” and, “They’ll be fooled into thinking these are miracles”, I don’t believe you fully grasp what is being bandied around by young adults, such as my great nephew, who is 16 years old and as one might expect, somewhat impressionable. In your DVD you gave the example of Pharoah’s magicians doing some of the same miracles as Moses did. That brought to my mind something I read in the Midrash about the children of Ishmael and the end time deception of the “calling down of fire” from heaven. We can find it in Rev 13:13 “And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men” This is what the Rabbi’s say in the Zohar:
“There is a tradition that Ishmael will be the final extension of the Roman Exile. It will be with his descendants that the final generation of Jews before the redemption will have to contend. This is supported by the Midrash: Israel will say to the king of the Arabs, “Take silver and gold and leave the Temple.” The king of the Arabs will say, “You have nothing to do with this Temple. However, if you want, choose a sacrifice as you did in the past, and we will also offer a sacrifice, and with the one whose sacrifice is accepted, we will all become one people.” The Jewish people will offer theirs, but it will not be accepted because the Satan will lay charges against them before The Holy One, Blessed is He. The descendents of Kedar will offer theirs, and it will be accepted…. At that time, the Arabs will say to Israel, “Come and believe in our faith,” but Israel will answer, “We will kill or be killed, but we will not deny our belief!” At that time, swords will be drawn, bows will be strung and arrows will be sent, and many will fall… (Sefer Eliyahu, Pirkei Mashiach, p. 236)”
In other words, it sounds like antichrist is going to duplicate what Elijah did. And there are scholars who feel that Elijah will be one of the two witnesses in the last days and he will be killed by antichrist.
I feel as though you know some of the background from children in my nephew’s generation. They are taught Evolution Theory in school. They watch a “lot” of television and they play video games where other wordly things are made to seem commonplace. In other words they get “indoctrinated” into the substandard culture of life in America at a very young age. They are assaulted by magic in books and movies, and there are little “big-eyed aliens” on cereal boxes and on kid’s cartoons! My nephew is a member of the National Honor Society, so, he’s not your average kid, he’s very intelligent and is extemely well read. Maybe too well read! Anyway, he comes to visit one weekend and he’s telling me all about this new multi-part series on the History Channel. Personally, I detest television. I lost my parents to the tube. In fact, an entire generation of parents were lost to the mass hypnosis of television and after them the children were lost. I had to watch it to see what it was all about, so, I set up the mass hypnosis machine to come on when the shows aired. I “used” to like the History Channel…
This is what the various authors posit. Erich von Daniken was right! And this would explain how evolution took a tremendous leap all of a sudden! That’s right, the ufo occupants were the gods who fell from the sky, deliberately, of course, millenia ago and altered our DNA, or, mixed it up or something and we began to worship them as god and from this the Bible was written by the Israelites who are portraying only one of these various beings as their God! Do you see, now, what we are up against?!! They can explain the Great Pyramids, the Aztec Pyramids, the ancient Myan prophesies of 2012, the reason for highly advanced technology that was lost to us and, yes, that would certainly explain evolution! The mythical super men of old were nothing more than the ufonauts who are only more prevalent now because we’re close to destroying ourselves…and on and on and on with all of their “proofs”.
I have to ask you; is this not “demonic”?!! Wouldn’t this be the greatest ruse ever perpetrated on unsuspecting, impressionable minds? History Channel has viewers worldwide and who knows how many people believe it. I wonder how many millions they invested in making this series. I don’t know about you; well maybe, but I’m more than a little worried. I’m in prayer constantly for my niece, my great niece and nephew who are NOT SAVED because my niece is too “intellectual” to believe in something as “primitive” as a God of the whole earth! And now I have to find some way to Biblically explain something that I myself witnessed together with other members of my family! This is not a laughing matter. The History Channel has thrown “strange fire” over the airwaves to lure more people astray.
You really should take a look at the Documentary Series, I think it’s called, “Ancient Gods”, or something like that, and see what I’m talking about for yourself before snickering about it and lightly brushing it off. We are in danger of loosing an entire generation to this explanation of evolution which, now, seems even more logical to them. My nephew, together with many other people think these things come from another planet. Personally, I think they come from another dimension.
This is what I told him. “God knows what they are, even though I don’t” Perhaps this is “the lie” that they will believe because they didn’t believe, nor, did they love, the Truth.
My heart is breaking here.
Anyone? Is there anyone at all who would care to comment from a Christian point of view?
Has anyone else seen the documentary?
Anyone care to risk looking foolish by speaking the truth?
Ray,
I think you’re talking about the “Children of Seth” theory of the interpretation of the “sons of God” statement. All early interpreters believe the “sons of God” statement to mean angels. There is no way that those who have gone astray could produce giants.
About your lights in the sky. I thought too, that some are probably the Lord’s and some, perhaps, are not. (?)
It seems to me that Goliath of Gath had earthly parents. I don’t know why the giants of Genesis 6 but I have evidence in my 1599 Geneva Bible that not all “early interpreters” go with the sons of God being angels idea.
About what I and 3 others saw in the sky overhead, I had seen rings around the sun in the winter that had some color of the rainbow, and I think there are moondogs as well as sundogs, but this was not like that.
It looked like a natural display but not like anything we had seen before. It was far away and beautiful. It was awesome, beginning to appear not so brightly and clearly, then it became defined and beautiful and then faster than it began to appear, it faded away, and it was time for me and the other to make the hundred or so mile drive back.
I suppose some of us may see things we don’t know what they are at times.
It is interesting about Pharaoh’s magicians and what they could do. The Bible does speak of lying signs and wonders.
I suppose a lying sign is anything that would be trying to “tell” or “show” a person that they are going the right way when they are not, or that God is signifying something is right when it is not. This is something we need to be prepared for by knowing what we can of the scriptures, learning from each other, being discerning, prudent, wise, looking unto God, asking him about some things when we need to, being sensitive to his spirit, etc.
I should have clarified that I’ve read “both” views and I tend to understand them as angels. Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. The angels were the “morning stars” of Job.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:8 Or [who] shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, [as if] it had issued out of the womb? Job 38:9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,…
J,F,& B says:
“Job 8:7 morning stars–especially beautiful. The creation morn is appropriately associated with these, it being the commencement of this world’s day. The stars are figuratively said to sing God’s praises, as in Psa 19:1 148:3 . They are symbols of the angels, bearing the same relation to our earth, as angels do to us. Therefore they answer to “sons of God,” or angels, in the parallel. See on JF & B for Job 25:5.”
Another expositor says it like this:
“3. Let him repeat, if he can, the songs of praise which were sung at that solemnity (v. 7), when the morning-stars sang together, the blessed angels (the first-born of the Father of light), who, in the morning of time, shone as brightly as the morning star, going immediately before the light which God commanded to shine out of darkness upon the seeds of this lower world, the earth, which was without form and void. They were the sons of God, who shouted for joy when they saw the foundations of the earth laid, because, though it was not made for them, but for the children of men, and though it would increase their work and service, yet they knew that the eternal Wisdom and Word, whom they were to worship (Heb. 1:6), would rejoice in the habitable parts of the earth, and that much of his delight would be in the sons of men, Prov. 8:31. The angels are called the sons of God because they bear much of his image, are with him in his house above, and serve him as a son does his father. Now observe here, (1.) The glory of God, as the Creator of the world, is to be celebrated with joy and triumph by all his reasonable creatures; for they are qualified and appointed to be the collectors of his praises from the inferior creatures, who can praise him merely as objects that exemplify his workmanship. (2.) The work of angels is to praise God. The more we abound in holy, humble, thankful, joyful praise, the more we do the will of God as they do it; and, whereas we are so barren and defective in praising God, it is a comfort to think that they are doing it in a better manner. (3.) They were unanimous in singing God’s praises; they sang together with one accord, and there was no jar in their harmony. The sweetest concerts are in praising God. (4.) They all did it, even those who afterwards fell and left their first estate. Even those who have praised God may, by the deceitful power of sin, be brought to blaspheme him, and yet God will be eternally praised.”
I know I have the Hebrew scholars idea on the sons of God as well, but, I can’t find it right now. I’ll try to locate it for you.
We are told by others what to believe by what they or others believe. We have to find truth for ourself and once we find it, no one will be able to take it from us. Truth is that powerful.
Comment 7 is because I read Robert Ricciardelli’s Pondering Quote of the Week on one of his network sites which came to my computer today. I read it and thought the substance of it to be worth sharing. I put it in my own words.
We all want to share things and a lot of what we have can help others along the way. It’s not good when we tell others what they have to believe or when we try to coerce them into thinking as we think or as our group thinks.
Group thinking can be a powerful influence, but truth is greater. It’s something we all have to find for ourselves. We have the spirit of God to help us find it. Sometimes it’s quite a process.
Dr Brown
I’m currently taking a OT Theology course with Dr Michael S Heiser who could perhaps do a interview with you on the subject of the Nephilim/ufo he has written a book on the topic called “the facade” he is a Hebrew scholar like yourself and editor of Logos Bible software. I could ask him to get in touch with you if you would like to devote some time to this ?
Thank you
Dr. Brown,
Please, please do this!
Should we take a vote?
Nobunaga,
Sure, by all means, please put him in touch with me through the home page of the website. His email will be directed to me by the staff. Also, if could send me a copy of his book, that would be great.
Thank you, thank you!!!
By the way I went on Dr. Heiser’s website: http://www.facadethebook.com/author.htm, where you can read the first chapter of his book, “The Facade” for free! The entire ebook is available for 12.95; wish I had 12.95.
All I can say is WOW!
Thank you Dr Brown
i have asked Dr Heiser and i will tell you as soon i get a word back. Shelia has posted the link to the book (thanks Shelia) the book is sort of science faction for want of a better description, here is his main website.
lets hope you two can talk on air about this, you have similar backgrounds academically and it would be fascinating to hear you two together. Problem will be fitting it all in time wise lol.
Dr Brown
Dr Heiser has a no interview policy now but said he would gladly make an exception for you. He has emailed the main site so i hope you get the email ok. Please let me know if it there is any problems.
this will be huge !
I just want to make sure I am reading this correctly, maybe some clarification may help so I’ll just go ahead and ask.. Are you asking Dr. Brown to interview this man and discuss the topic of aliens?
what kind of sickness is going on here???
No not aliens, nephilim, the alien thing will no doubt be addressed though. This is a Hebrew Scholar and ANE academic please give the man a chance to speak before writing it off. I grantee if your interested in the Bible, it will be interesting.
These Dr. Heiser seems to believe in a divine council of gods,kinda like the Mormons “Council of gods” teaching.
Nobunaga,
Sounds fascinating! I’m sure many listeners will enjoy the discussion.
Blessings,
Larry
Hi Nobunaga,
Fair enough, despite the fact I’m not sure what being a Hebrew scholar or not has to do with aliens, maybe that was in reference to the word “nephilim”… However if this is your interest I do not want to belittle it by any means. I was just seeking some clarification on what exactly was being discussed, not my cup of tea but that doesn’t mean other members of the body do not find it interesting although I wonder how/if it will draw one closer to the Lord, anyway…
Thanks for the reply, take care.
God bless
I’ve been looking at study notes which are at the bottom of the pages in the 1599 Geneva Bible concerning Jude 1:6, I Peter 3:19,20, and II Peter 2:4, since when the subject of the “giants” of Genesis 6 come up, it is popular today to be referred to those verses.
In the Geneva notes on these verses, it seems clear that those Christians were not so indoctrinated on some of the views that are commonly held today on this subject, rather they wrote in their notes about how Christ in the spirit witnessed to those who were disobedient at the time the ark was being prepared by Noah, even speaking to them through the mouth of Noah.
There seems to be no hint of the Lord Jesus witnessing to these “spirits in prison” after the cross, but rather long before it, during the time the ark was being prepared.
They indicate they believed the “sons of God” of Genesis 6 to be the godly men. I also see it that way, that the scriptures warn us of falling away from God and also teach us that there were godly men such as Enoch at that time when men called upon the name of the Lord. I trust that such men became wise through the fear of God, the spirit of wisdom. It seems that many of these fell away from God and became ungodly, being drawn away by worldly things beginning with taking unto them wives who were daughters of those men who knew not God.
I take it that the man who dies in his sins is in some kind of darkened state (great dispair?) which holds him until the day of judgment, especially those who once knew God but fell away. Sometimes those are the worst of men, the ones who have known God but fell away. I think also of Job who once was very close to God, but came into a severe situation in the hand of the enemy. At that time he wasn’t so easy to deal with. His 3 friends finally gave up trying to (fix?) reconcile or restore him to God. At first they had little to go on and began to prod around. Later when a problem should have become much more evident to them, they quit.
I can’t explain the giants. I don’t know why they were or how many they were. I trust they would have bled like anyone else if they would have been cut.
Can I have the address for “just cookies” so I can order 10 dozen sugar cookies?
On the Subject of UFOs from a Christian Perspective, Dr. Hugh Ross of http://www.reasons.org has written a book called “Lights in the Sky and Little green Men” Which should be very helpful in any research in this area
Eric
I have no interest at all in aliens, i havnt watched one episode of star trek either. There is some dispute as to what the word “nephilim” means, some say its “fallen ones” some say its giants so thats where a Hebrew Scholars comes in handy, of Course we have Dr Brown but Dr Heiser has spent years on this topic and written a book based on the subject. The topic has ramification into doctrine and theology, It would shed light on the Gen 6 incident.
I’ve seen some “theories on Nephilim as aliens and I have to say… It’s a real strech there guys.
Now UFOs as a manifestation of interdimentional beings (Demons) I can wrap my head around… Acornding to reaserch done By Dr. Ross (a Christian Astronomer mentioned in my other post) Most RUFO sightings occur around areas that are frequently host to occultic practices and most people who are “Abducted” are or have been delving into the occult.
There is a lot of crazy stuff out there that attaches itself to the nephilim so it would be good to have two bible scholars talk us through what the text says and doesn’t say in the original language for those of us how cannot read Hebrew, and also tell us what the early Church line of thought was on this subject and how it changed. So we can discern for ourselves. just my thoughts.
I really appreciated Dr. Brown’s fairness in regard to President Obama’s statements re: the Sermon on the Mount. I agree with Dr. Brown’s assessment. Some people have taken Pres. Obama’s statements and twisted them all out of proportion, really reading something very cynical in them. While we can’t know the Pres.’s motivation, it is true that few agencies could live up to the ideals expressed in the Sermon on the Mount, and Jesus’ views are truly radical compared to some watered-down versions of ‘mainstream’ Christianity.
Ray,
I read somewhere (?) that the expression you used, “that there were godly men such as Enoch at that time when men called upon the name of the Lord.” that the expression means the opposite. That at that time men began to “curse” the name of the Lord.
Anybody?
I’ve had two UFO sightings. One was quite close. I was sixteen, and taking a break on the balcony of an apartment where my group was meeting. I first heard a quiet whirring sound above me, like a machine. I looked up, and saw the circle of a ship whose edge was just overhanging the roofline. I watched as it floated free and was hovering just above. At that point, I could completely see the underside of its round shape. Then it turned sharply downward, revealing a black series of windows all around the “brim” if you will. These windows soon displayed some sort of letters/characters in white light, but they were not the English alphabet. I soon realized I could not read the “message.” Years later, when I saw the Russian alphabet, I thought back to that scene and noticed a similarity, but I still don’t know for certain. Anyway, back to the balcony…I ran inside to tell my friends to come out fast if they wanted to see a “flying saucer”, but oddly enough, they all hesitated. Finally one accompanied me back out. The ship was completely gone, though. I ran down the stairs thinking I could see it leaving in the sky, but it was totally out of sight. We weren’t that far from a major city street, and for years I’ve wondered why that saucer-shaped ship did not stop traffic. I still don’t have an answer to why it was not visible to many more people.
The other sighting was at a farther range, but this time it was also viewed by at least three other people who were in the backyard when the six or seven ships came up, quickly changed course, arranged themselves in a pyramidal shape, such as:
* * * * * * *
and then blinked out of view. (Not sure if the asterisks will maintain their shape once I submit this comment — if they don’t, they are arranged with one at the top, two underneath, and three or four directly below, so the whole effect is a triangular arrangment of ships)
I’ve no explanation for any of what I saw, nor what others have seen, but I believe people when they describe UFO’s because of my own experiences. When you see something, you know you saw it. I don’t dwell on it much, and I’m not sure about all the various theories out there, but I would like to have a solid answer someday.
I asked one minister about it in a church I used to go to and he said that people who are saved (meaning, btw, in his church only) don’t see UFO’s. That “explanation” did not ring true to me. I think people are more dismissive when they haven’t seen anything. Whatever they are, they have a reality of their own — that I’m sure of.
Yup, the asterisks all moved to the left; but again, the whole arrangement is supposed to be fully triangular.
When we look into the sky it stirs our imagination. When we talk about a UFO it still means it is an unidentified flying object. By that definition it could be an angel, a weather baloon, a cloud, a meteor, or a craft from this planet or another. Out of this list angels and crafts from another world stir our imagination the most. I have left out another possibility, an evil spirit. Now if you don’t believe in creatures from other planets but you do believe in a spiritual realm, then if something is unidentified – some might be fearful of demonic forces in the air and call to mind Ephesians 2:2 which references the “prince of the power of the air.” The fact of the matter is when we don’t know peoples imaginations run wild. What we want to believe may not be what is there. On the other hand, if it is possible, although unlikely, we hope against the odds that the encounter we see is the real thing. If someone can get struck by lightening, or win the lottery, why can’t one of these UFO citings be with something like an alien from outer space we reason. Now for a little bit of speculation. I think scientist like Hugh Ross would argue that the conditions for life in the universe are so fine tuned that our existance on earth is really one of improbability. Hence, life really was designed. The chances of life on other worlds, given our present knowledge is unlikely. Let me offer an alternative view. Even if life is designed, and our present state of knowledge might preclude the existence of other beings on other planets – consider this. God is a God of life. There was a heavenly host that was created before man. When this world was created life was not limited to man alone. There were plants, fish, animals as well as humans. Life is everywhere. If God created life in abundance on earth I don’t know why he might not have done so elsewhere in the cosmos. What is often unspoken is that the theological question is what does this have to do with the redemption drama unfolding on earth? And nobody has an answer. I have a theory that there is life on other planets, but the time to reveal that life has not come into the fullness of time for man. But I also think our quest to find life on other planets has a certain nobility. As Proverbs 25:2 says – It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
I just want to add that while people often allude to “imagination gone wild” to dismiss what others have seen, I am 100% certain that what I saw was not “imagination”…but I don’t expect to convince otherwise, because I know that until one has an experience of such, it’s more comforting to chalk it up to something else. I recognize that the devil is a master of illusion, and I don’t discount the possibility of such, either. But saucer sightings have been with us since ancient Sumer, over 3000 years ago. This is not simply an ‘end of the age’ phenomenon.
I believe all UFO sightings are demonic. This so called UFO activities comes directly from the kingdom of darkness.
Cliff what you said from Dr Ross just confirms what I have always believed.
Praise Jesus forever!!!
“I believe all UFO sightings are demonic.”
I believe you’re incorrect, though sincerely motivated. Some are, some are not.
Time will make it plain.
I am not at all opposed to the interdimensional aspect of heavenly beings. In fact, the entire Old Testament and some instances in the New, are replete with the supernatural. Take the story in IIKings where Elisha has the Lord open the eyes of the one who was afraid of the army gathered against them:
2Ki 6:15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? :16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that [be] with us [are] more than they that [be] with them. :17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain [was] full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
It seems to me that the Lord’s host was there the whole time, but, it wasn’t until their eyes were opened that they could see them. And then, of course, we have the Lord himself, appearing in the midst of the Apostles as they were discussing His resurrection. In our present bodies we can’t just appear and disappear, but, it seems that in our resurrected bodies something changes. You can’t read the Bible without encountering the supernatural.
“You can’t read the Bible without encountering the supernatural.” Very true. Sadly, I’ve observed that there is a kind of natural/material-minded Christianity in America which zealously denies the SUPER-natural, except when it is being consigned to the devil. It’s a bit of a wonder that those who believe in that way even accept the reality of a Holy SPIRIT.
Even hard-headed physicists recognize several dimensions. Invisibility happens. But just because something can’t be (generally) seen doesn’t mean it isn’t SO. And just because it is SO and yet invisible doesn’t automatically mean it is also simply evil.
Ok some “UFO” sightings are government planes, aircrafts.
But you you believe in aliens….little green men.. I will laugh.
By the way the Holy spirit dwells in his people. He doesn’t dance in the sky for entertainment.
Focus on Jesus.
No disrepect intented, but if you did see anything in the sky and is confused as to what it is. Ask The Lord to reveal to you what it could be or mean.
God is not a God of confusion. Keep that in mind.
The Lord said, “judge nothing before the time”, so, I remain open minded. I don’t believe these to be all evil. I am simply saying that the reality of them is being used by some to promote ideas about them that turn out to have developed into an ideology that is contrary to the Lord. I don’t know what I saw.
I just know I saw it.
I’m on your side, Ruth. Either we take the Bible at face value, or, we risk loosing some things in interpretation. The book of Daniel clearly states that there are angels, much mightier in power and performance, who are battling each other in the spiritual realm. For Pete’s sake, why does that thought scare anyone? And do you think Daniel was making it up, or, that Gabriel and Michael weren’t real angels?
There seems to be a battle going on that we are not aware of.
Of course there is activity going on in the spirit ralm. All the time. Everytime I pray I ask the Lord to protect my prayers as they go up into Heaven from the kingdom of darkness so they won’t hinder my prayers. I say…Lord send your angels to protect my prayers.
Heck I’m not afraid of no devil. Why should I be? I got Christ in me.
If you saw angels in the sky. Then why don’t you just say I saw angels in the sky?
It sound like you don’t know what you seen but your hoping its something from the Lord. I’m just saying you could be witnessing demonic activity.
I said what I meant.
And you’re exactly right; I don’t know what I saw. It didn’t tell me what I was seeing, my eyes did. And, since the Lord gave me two eyes, to disallow what’s in front of me would be ridiculous. It appeared to have a definite form and dimensions, albeit, not one I was used to seeing. And, it didn’t behave like anything I had ever seen before.
Angels in the Bible appear as “men” and are not entities with glorious wings as most are used to imagining. Angels in the Bible are never described as having wings. This conception was most likely taken from Daniel, where the angel was “caused to fly swiftly”.
No missing time, no, gripped with fear. Just a sense of awe.
No one said anything about a devil, or, the Satan. You are the one presuming that they are evil and that only something called an angel is good.
How is it that we will be judging angels? Do you feel qualified to judge an angel? Yet, that’s what Scripture says, unless, I’m reading it wrong. Obviously, some angels have done some things that would require judgment.
You figure it out. Furthermore, I don’t live in a “kingdom of darkness” as you say.
I want to give a testimony that happened to me when I first became saved. When I first accepted Jesus in my heart and as my Lord in the year 1999, I’d experienced bad anxiety and panic attacks. I had 3 small kids at the time. The mornings would be the worst time for me. I would get sick and throw up. I went through such torment in my mind. It was hell. I suffered from anxiety and panic attacks since I was 13 yrs old. But when I came to the Lord it got worse. That is when I learned all about spiritual warfare. I never knew there were demonic spirits that attacked people. As soon as I realized that all these years of living I was going through the anxiety and panic attacks was from the kingdom of darkness. I got mad. Really angry at the devil. What right do you have I thought, to toment me like that?? That is when I learned about taking authority over satan. It wasn’t easy. However, the Lord would speak in my spirit saying I am going to strenghten you. Then one morning the Lord said to me…I am going to send the angel Micheal in your life to battle for for. Again I was a brand new Christian at the time of all this. I asked a Christian friend of mind and said…Is there an angel in the bible name Micheal? She told me yes.
I was like yippeeee!!!! Thank you Lord. So the Lord sent the archangel michael into my life and battle the devil for me. Praise God forever.
Jesus said..I have come to set the captives free. (the Lord wasn’t kidding folks.)
Deliverance didn’t happen over night. I had to step out in faith when I left my house to go places. The anxiety caused me to have so much fear I didn’t want to leave my house. I would think a lot about Peter. If Peter could walk on that water to meet Jesus then I can do this, I can go here and there.
The Lord had freed me. I have been on fire for the Lord since.
So believe me, I know all about spiritual warfare.
When I kids would go outside and play, I’d say Lord take your angels and protect my kids from any harm. My kids are older now, as I am. My daughter is a junior at Boston University, she is 20, my sons are 18 and 15. I still pray for them. Always will.
So folks don’t assume things, ok?
May the Lord fill you up with his peace,love, joy and especially hope.
Don’t let satan fool you, ok? Here is an example of how he works.
3 young kids were out in the field one day. They saw a vision of Mary (mother of Jesus). They called all the village people to tell them what they seen. All the people came rushing out to gaze at this vision of Mary. There was no fear at all from this vision of Mary, only excitement. So, til this very day this is why the Catholic Church holds Mary at a high esteem the way the do. They believe the vision of Mary seen by thoses people was a sign from God.
Of course this is a lie from hell. God does not want us to worship Mary.
Satan comes as an angel of light. Beware and be wise.
I am aware of those verses in the Bible, as you said, “Satan comes as an angel of light.” Do you see know, the quandary? We’re left asking ourselves; which is it? Of course we need spiritual discernment. Someone who has never experienced anything remotely similar to what Dr. Brown has; (concerning being touched on the shoulder by what he knew to be something real, and then, coming down with double pneumonia), their first reaction might be, “yeah, right”.
The Scripture also says we are not to bring “railing accusations against Satan”. Which, not even the angels did. Their answer in disputing about the body of Moses, is to say, “The Lord rebuke you. So, which is it? I don’t know. I’ve never had to bind a demonic spirit, I merely say, “The Lord rebuke you in Jesus name.” I mean, I say that to myself. Like when I’ve drifted into unkind thoughts, or such. And, it works. Although I’ve never been around someone possessed with evil spirits, I have been around those who “exuded” something that vexed my spirit and I thought better than to spar with them.
I’m not at all sure, after reading about Dr. Heiser and many things he says, and his various hypotheses, that he can even answer to this phenomenon. Apparently he’s not speaking from experience. (?) Hopefully, he can shed some light on it.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see, if he does the interview with Dr. Brown, exactly what it is he’s purporting.
I’m over it already and I’m finished talking about it.
Let’s move on.
Ok Shelia
God Bless you
One more thing…Jesus has given us all authority to cast out demons and heal the sick.
Luke 9:1 When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases
Mark 16:17, “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils…”
Debbie, your own personal experience, sacred and personal – special to you – is your own and no one can or does presume to take it from you.
Sheila and I have been communicating that seeing something highly unusual – beyond normal – has been one of our own experiences, and we know that what we observed did have a reality of its own, even though it was quite extra-ordinary.
I don’t believe, Debbie, that what I saw that day from the balcony of that apartment complex was in fact “evil.” But just because I can’t name it or explain it fully and am not an “expert” on it doesn’t mean I am “confused,” and therefore, deceived by Satan. There are a lot of unexplainable phenomena in life, don’t you agree? Even people who lead Spirit-filled lives have burning questions.
I would caution you against jumping to judgments in general, but also specifically in the matter of blanketly condemning UFOlogy. The declaration that “all UFO sightings” are “evil” or ridiculous and are all about “little green men” when neither Sheila or I have even used that term in describing our experiences means only that your imagination would add that.
I’ll repeat that I do think evil ET activity does exist. (ET just means extra-terrestrial, or from something other than terra, earth) But I’m certain that not everything extra-terrestrial or supernatural is evil! That should, in fact, be pretty obvious. We still have to discern between what is good and what is evil, even in that realm.
It’s pretty impossible for us to judge another’s experience without extensive knowledge of it. I trust God to judge all things, because He sees and knows all.
As Christians, we don’t always have to come to conclusions. Some things are OK to remain unknown until such a time as we are informed by our Lord. It’s okay to say we don’t know something. We can learn certain truths, and embrace them completely, but if we are honest, we should admit that there are always going to be subjects in which there are areas we simply don’t know enough about, and there’s no shame in just admitting that.
UFO sightings are not from the Lord. case closed.
“The devil and his demons can, according to the literature, manifest themselves in almost any form, and can physically imitate anything from angels to horrifying monsters with glowing eyes. Strange objects and entities materialize and dematerialize, just as the UFOs and their splendid occupants appear and disappear, walk through walls, and perform other supernatural feats.” John Keel
Out off all these headings, I am most interested in the Nephilim…well and Yeshua 🙂 Rush Limbaugh? really. Might as well talk about Hannity and Savage…
RE: Nephilim
I would hesitate to go as far as the caller went with his assertions on the nephilim/ufo connection but there does seem to be biblical evidence for the nephilim and a connection with demons/evil people.
IMO the correct definition is Giants as in mumbers with the correct spelling with the yod present. Giants as in 6 or 7 foot people not 30 or 40.
Bashan was a place noted in both the Hebrew Bible and Ugaritic as a nephilim stronghold (cf. Num 21, 32; Deut. 3; Josh.9).
It brings to mind Our Lords words on the cross about the bulls of bashan, which i believe is a reference to demons/principalities or powers.
So i dont think it so easy to laugh off as it may first appear but i certainly would not want to address it in public before being certain but there is evidence for the linkage there. As for little green men, No.
May God bless the bakery that decided not to encourage the gay agenda by baking specially (sorry ’bout that, sometimes I don’t know how to say a thing) cookies.
I have no evidence that tells me that Rush Limbaugh is not born again, even though he might or might not know Jesus. He might know him very little or he might know him more. I just don’t know much about this.
It’s one thing to be born again and another thing to know Jesus, but since this was about Jesus and Rush Limbaugh, I thought to comment on this in this way.
Let’s remember that once a person is born again, it doesn’t necessarily mean that he will not be deceived. Didn’t Jesus say that many will say he is the Christ, and yet deceive many? (Matthew 24:5) At least I think this is what Jesus was saying here. Someone else may have another interpretation, but this is what it looks like Jesus was saying, to me.
So how do I know if a person is born again? If I hear them speak in tongues I believe they are born again. This of course does not mean that they can not deceive, or be deceived.
I do not believe that one who is not born again can speak in tongues though such a person may try to convince someone that they do even though they do not. Even some born again Christians have fallen into that either through ignorance or by something else.
If I had someone in front of me sitting in a chair and I asked them to speak in tongues and they knew another language, one that I do not understand and they began to roll their eyes around, look to the ceiling, and speak whatever they could think of to say in that language as an attempt to trick me, I’m not so sure I would be fooled, even though some people do very well at persistent talking.
Nevertheless they should be known by their fruit even if they do not speak in tongues. Even so, sometimes I just don’t know.
Doesn’t the scripture say that if we knew God we would not sin? I’m not sure where this is in scripture. It’s possible to have once known God and then to have lost that knowledge isn’t it?
Though the Bible doesn’t say that the giants were the offspring of the godly who began to degenerate
mixing in with the worldly and marrying the worldly, I found that in my 1599 Geneva Bible there is a footnote (throughout this Bible there are a great number of footnotes by those called the reformers of that era) on Genesis 6:2 about the sons of God, and it reads “The children of the godly which began to degenerate.” This seems to fit the context for when men began to call upon the name of the Lord, didn’t they begin to learn of the Lord and be led by the spirit of wisdom?
And isn’t it so that when God’s people fall away they tend to degenerate and become worse than others who knew not God? It seems to me that in many ways they have. It’s happened before.
Now, it doesn’t say that the giants were of the sons of God that began to degerate (as we may suppose) but we know that there were giants in those days.
I had once wondered if that meant dinosaurs or included dinosaurs, but I think it’s talking about men.
Why they were big, I don’t know, but when I read the footnotes of the 1599 Geneva Bible, I began to realize that viewpoints change over time and that there are modern day teachings that seem to me to be something that wasn’t taught or known in an earlier era.
It seems to me that the teaching of angles marrying men and producing giants as offspring is a teaching that either is a modern day teaching, or something that though it were heard hundreds or more years earlier, if indeed it was, didn’t have the influence that it holds today upon the church.
That’s what it looks like to me at this time.
I’ve never seen a UFO but I have seen something I would like to mention. I’ve never seen anything like it since and I doubt if many people have seen this kind of display.
I do not believe it was northern lights. I just saw on TV a film on nature which showed what I believe to be northern lights. I have seen pictures of northern lights in school books. I have seen what I believe to be northern lights. I grew up in Minnesota where northern lights have been seen in the winter.
What I saw in the sky was seen by four of us. We were all Christians and were involved in good communication concerning the scriptures. Someone saw something in the sky overhead and we all looked at it. It was directly overhead so we all layed down on the ground and watched it. It was just getting dark and what it looked like is a circle about the size of a full moon or slightly smaller. It was a perfect circle and inside this circle was nothing seen but the sky. Around this perfect circle shape were colored waves of light that spread out all around it’s circumference.
The man whose place (rural farm) we were visiting at said it wasn’t northern lights. We layed down on the ground and one of us said, “OK God. Give us a show.” And we were entertained. The lights began to slowly give a greater display. This went on for about ten minutes or so and disappeared.
We all thought it was some kind of show God gave us, some kind of display of his glory.
I still wonder if it could have been northern lights but everything I have seen or heard about that doesn’t seem to fit. I do not believe it was northern lights.
None of us thought it was a UFO. At least nobody ever said that it was.
About the giants of Genesis 6… I wonder if all the people of that day were larger than people of today. I had heard someone say that they believe they were, thus explaining the “giants in the earth in those days.”
There was a man named Ron Wyatt who also claimed to have found something of Noah’s ark, the remains of it, something described as a boat shaped object, petrified rock. He’s the one who also said he found some evidence that men were larger in the days of Noah. He seemed to say that Noah was a larger man then men of today. If so, that would make building an ark a bit easier I think. The ark of Noah is quite a project considering that he didn’t have diesel dozers, trucks, forklifts, and cranes.
Interesting, but I don’t know for sure why the giants. I do trust that the sons of God of Genesis 6:2 were the godly men, the ones who called upon the name of the Lord, gave glory to him, worshipped him, and received from him such gifts as prudence, discretion, good sense, and the knowledge of God.
These mighty men of old, men of renoun, I suppose to have become as tyrants filled with wickedness and that they greatly influenced the earth in a bad way.
I don’t know if all the men were known to have been large (giants) or only a few. I just don’t know.
Dear Dr. Brown,
I certainly realize that each preacher, evangelist, and specialist has limited broad knowledge and are highly focused in one particular area, yours being semitic languages and your personal testimony. I am undeterred, however, even though you could barely hold back your laughter and your thoughts of, “Oh boy, here’s another nut case” when you were talking about the question concerning interdimensional flying aircraft. And I feel certain, too, that you don’t want to open up what you might view as a can of worms. But, that’s alright because when I was first saved, my friends and some family felt that I had checked my brains at the door when I confessed that Jesus is Lord of heaven and earth. So, you see, I’ve become immune to others mocking me.
I recently purchased your DVD on “Angels, Demons and Deliverance” and while you seem to expect a one hundred fold increase in demonic activity at the end of the age, I think you said, and I’m paraphrasing, “Demonic activity will be so common place that people won’t think anything of it” and, “They’ll be fooled into thinking these are miracles”, I don’t believe you fully grasp what is being bandied around by young adults, such as my great nephew, who is 16 years old and as one might expect, somewhat impressionable. In your DVD you gave the example of Pharoah’s magicians doing some of the same miracles as Moses did. That brought to my mind something I read in the Midrash about the children of Ishmael and the end time deception of the “calling down of fire” from heaven. We can find it in Rev 13:13 “And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men” This is what the Rabbi’s say in the Zohar:
“There is a tradition that Ishmael will be the final extension of the Roman Exile. It will be with his descendants that the final generation of Jews before the redemption will have to contend. This is supported by the Midrash:
Israel will say to the king of the Arabs, “Take silver and gold and leave the Temple.” The king of the Arabs will say, “You have nothing to do with this Temple. However, if you want, choose a sacrifice as you did in the past, and we will also offer a sacrifice, and with the one whose sacrifice is accepted, we will all become one people.” The Jewish people will offer theirs, but it will not be accepted because the Satan will lay charges against them before The Holy One, Blessed is He. The descendents of Kedar will offer theirs, and it will be accepted…. At that time, the Arabs will say to Israel, “Come and believe in our faith,” but Israel will answer, “We will kill or be killed, but we will not deny our belief!” At that time, swords will be drawn, bows will be strung and arrows will be sent, and many will fall… (Sefer Eliyahu, Pirkei Mashiach, p. 236)”
In other words, it sounds like antichrist is going to duplicate what Elijah did. And there are scholars who feel that Elijah will be one of the two witnesses in the last days and he will be killed by antichrist.
I feel as though you know some of the background from children in my nephew’s generation. They are taught Evolution Theory in school. They watch a “lot” of television and they play video games where other wordly things are made to seem commonplace. In other words they get “indoctrinated” into the substandard culture of life in America at a very young age. They are assaulted by magic in books and movies, and there are little “big-eyed aliens” on cereal boxes and on kid’s cartoons! My nephew is a member of the National Honor Society, so, he’s not your average kid, he’s very intelligent and is extemely well read. Maybe too well read! Anyway, he comes to visit one weekend and he’s telling me all about this new multi-part series on the History Channel. Personally, I detest television. I lost my parents to the tube. In fact, an entire generation of parents were lost to the mass hypnosis of television and after them the children were lost. I had to watch it to see what it was all about, so, I set up the mass hypnosis machine to come on when the shows aired. I “used” to like the History Channel…
This is what the various authors posit. Erich von Daniken was right! And this would explain how evolution took a tremendous leap all of a sudden! That’s right, the ufo occupants were the gods who fell from the sky, deliberately, of course, millenia ago and altered our DNA, or, mixed it up or something and we began to worship them as god and from this the Bible was written by the Israelites who are portraying only one of these various beings as their God! Do you see, now, what we are up against?!! They can explain the Great Pyramids, the Aztec Pyramids, the ancient Myan prophesies of 2012, the reason for highly advanced technology that was lost to us and, yes, that would certainly explain evolution! The mythical super men of old were nothing more than the ufonauts who are only more prevalent now because we’re close to destroying ourselves…and on and on and on with all of their “proofs”.
I have to ask you; is this not “demonic”?!! Wouldn’t this be the greatest ruse ever perpetrated on unsuspecting, impressionable minds? History Channel has viewers worldwide and who knows how many people believe it. I wonder how many millions they invested in making this series. I don’t know about you; well maybe, but I’m more than a little worried. I’m in prayer constantly for my niece, my great niece and nephew who are NOT SAVED because my niece is too “intellectual” to believe in something as “primitive” as a God of the whole earth! And now I have to find some way to Biblically explain something that I myself witnessed together with other members of my family! This is not a laughing matter. The History Channel has thrown “strange fire” over the airwaves to lure more people astray.
You really should take a look at the Documentary Series, I think it’s called, “Ancient Gods”, or something like that, and see what I’m talking about for yourself before snickering about it and lightly brushing it off. We are in danger of loosing an entire generation to this explanation of evolution which, now, seems even more logical to them. My nephew, together with many other people think these things come from another planet. Personally, I think they come from another dimension.
This is what I told him. “God knows what they are, even though I don’t” Perhaps this is “the lie” that they will believe because they didn’t believe, nor, did they love, the Truth.
My heart is breaking here.
Anyone? Is there anyone at all who would care to comment from a Christian point of view?
Has anyone else seen the documentary?
Anyone care to risk looking foolish by speaking the truth?
Ray,
I think you’re talking about the “Children of Seth” theory of the interpretation of the “sons of God” statement. All early interpreters believe the “sons of God” statement to mean angels. There is no way that those who have gone astray could produce giants.
About your lights in the sky. I thought too, that some are probably the Lord’s and some, perhaps, are not. (?)
It seems to me that Goliath of Gath had earthly parents. I don’t know why the giants of Genesis 6 but I have evidence in my 1599 Geneva Bible that not all “early interpreters” go with the sons of God being angels idea.
About what I and 3 others saw in the sky overhead, I had seen rings around the sun in the winter that had some color of the rainbow, and I think there are moondogs as well as sundogs, but this was not like that.
It looked like a natural display but not like anything we had seen before. It was far away and beautiful. It was awesome, beginning to appear not so brightly and clearly, then it became defined and beautiful and then faster than it began to appear, it faded away, and it was time for me and the other to make the hundred or so mile drive back.
I suppose some of us may see things we don’t know what they are at times.
It is interesting about Pharaoh’s magicians and what they could do. The Bible does speak of lying signs and wonders.
I suppose a lying sign is anything that would be trying to “tell” or “show” a person that they are going the right way when they are not, or that God is signifying something is right when it is not. This is something we need to be prepared for by knowing what we can of the scriptures, learning from each other, being discerning, prudent, wise, looking unto God, asking him about some things when we need to, being sensitive to his spirit, etc.
I should have clarified that I’ve read “both” views and I tend to understand them as angels. Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. The angels were the “morning stars” of Job.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:8 Or [who] shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, [as if] it had issued out of the womb?
Job 38:9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,…
J,F,& B says:
“Job 8:7 morning stars–especially beautiful. The creation morn is appropriately associated with these, it being the commencement of this world’s day. The stars are figuratively said to sing God’s praises, as in Psa 19:1 148:3 . They are symbols of the angels, bearing the same relation to our earth, as angels do to us. Therefore they answer to “sons of God,” or angels, in the parallel. See on JF & B for Job 25:5.”
Another expositor says it like this:
“3. Let him repeat, if he can, the songs of praise which were sung at that solemnity (v. 7), when the morning-stars sang together, the blessed angels (the first-born of the Father of light), who, in the morning of time, shone as brightly as the morning star, going immediately before the light which God commanded to shine out of darkness upon the seeds of this lower world, the earth, which was without form and void. They were the sons of God, who shouted for joy when they saw the foundations of the earth laid, because, though it was not made for them, but for the children of men, and though it would increase their work and service, yet they knew that the eternal Wisdom and Word, whom they were to worship (Heb. 1:6), would rejoice in the habitable parts of the earth, and that much of his delight would be in the sons of men, Prov. 8:31. The angels are called the sons of God because they bear much of his image, are with him in his house above, and serve him as a son does his father. Now observe here, (1.) The glory of God, as the Creator of the world, is to be celebrated with joy and triumph by all his reasonable creatures; for they are qualified and appointed to be the collectors of his praises from the inferior creatures, who can praise him merely as objects that exemplify his workmanship. (2.) The work of angels is to praise God. The more we abound in holy, humble, thankful, joyful praise, the more we do the will of God as they do it; and, whereas we are so barren and defective in praising God, it is a comfort to think that they are doing it in a better manner. (3.) They were unanimous in singing God’s praises; they sang together with one accord, and there was no jar in their harmony. The sweetest concerts are in praising God. (4.) They all did it, even those who afterwards fell and left their first estate. Even those who have praised God may, by the deceitful power of sin, be brought to blaspheme him, and yet God will be eternally praised.”
I know I have the Hebrew scholars idea on the sons of God as well, but, I can’t find it right now. I’ll try to locate it for you.
We are told by others what to believe by what they or others believe. We have to find truth for ourself and once we find it, no one will be able to take it from us. Truth is that powerful.
Comment 7 is because I read Robert Ricciardelli’s
Pondering Quote of the Week on one of his network sites which came to my computer today. I read it and thought the substance of it to be worth sharing. I put it in my own words.
We all want to share things and a lot of what we have can help others along the way. It’s not good when we tell others what they have to believe or when we try to coerce them into thinking as we think or as our group thinks.
Group thinking can be a powerful influence, but truth is greater. It’s something we all have to find for ourselves. We have the spirit of God to help us find it. Sometimes it’s quite a process.
Dr Brown
I’m currently taking a OT Theology course with Dr Michael S Heiser who could perhaps do a interview with you on the subject of the Nephilim/ufo he has written a book on the topic called “the facade” he is a Hebrew scholar like yourself and editor of Logos Bible software. I could ask him to get in touch with you if you would like to devote some time to this ?
Thank you
Dr. Brown,
Please, please do this!
Should we take a vote?
Nobunaga,
Sure, by all means, please put him in touch with me through the home page of the website. His email will be directed to me by the staff. Also, if could send me a copy of his book, that would be great.
Thank you, thank you!!!
By the way I went on Dr. Heiser’s website: http://www.facadethebook.com/author.htm, where you can read the first chapter of his book, “The Facade” for free! The entire ebook is available for 12.95; wish I had 12.95.
All I can say is WOW!
Thank you Dr Brown
i have asked Dr Heiser and i will tell you as soon i get a word back. Shelia has posted the link to the book (thanks Shelia) the book is sort of science faction for want of a better description, here is his main website.
http://www.michaelsheiser.com/
lets hope you two can talk on air about this, you have similar backgrounds academically and it would be fascinating to hear you two together. Problem will be fitting it all in time wise lol.
Dr Brown
Dr Heiser has a no interview policy now but said he would gladly make an exception for you. He has emailed the main site so i hope you get the email ok. Please let me know if it there is any problems.
this will be huge !
I just want to make sure I am reading this correctly, maybe some clarification may help so I’ll just go ahead and ask.. Are you asking Dr. Brown to interview this man and discuss the topic of aliens?
what kind of sickness is going on here???
No not aliens, nephilim, the alien thing will no doubt be addressed though. This is a Hebrew Scholar and ANE academic please give the man a chance to speak before writing it off. I grantee if your interested in the Bible, it will be interesting.
These Dr. Heiser seems to believe in a divine council of gods,kinda like the Mormons “Council of gods” teaching.
Nobunaga,
Sounds fascinating! I’m sure many listeners will enjoy the discussion.
Blessings,
Larry
Hi Nobunaga,
Fair enough, despite the fact I’m not sure what being a Hebrew scholar or not has to do with aliens, maybe that was in reference to the word “nephilim”… However if this is your interest I do not want to belittle it by any means. I was just seeking some clarification on what exactly was being discussed, not my cup of tea but that doesn’t mean other members of the body do not find it interesting although I wonder how/if it will draw one closer to the Lord, anyway…
Thanks for the reply, take care.
God bless
I’ve been looking at study notes which are at the bottom of the pages in the 1599 Geneva Bible concerning Jude 1:6, I Peter 3:19,20, and II Peter 2:4, since when the subject of the “giants”
of Genesis 6 come up, it is popular today to be referred to those verses.
In the Geneva notes on these verses, it seems clear that those Christians were not so indoctrinated on some of the views that are commonly held today on this subject, rather they
wrote in their notes about how Christ in the spirit witnessed to those who were disobedient at the time the ark was being prepared by Noah, even speaking to them through the mouth of Noah.
There seems to be no hint of the Lord Jesus witnessing to these “spirits in prison” after the cross, but rather long before it, during the time the ark was being prepared.
They indicate they believed the “sons of God” of Genesis 6 to be the godly men. I also see it that way, that the scriptures warn us of falling away from God and also teach us that there were godly men such as Enoch at that time when men called upon the name of the Lord. I trust that such men became wise through the fear of God, the spirit of wisdom. It seems that many of these fell away from God and became ungodly, being drawn away by worldly things beginning with taking unto them wives who were daughters of those men who knew not God.
I take it that the man who dies in his sins is in some kind of darkened state (great dispair?) which holds him until the day of judgment, especially those who once knew God but fell away. Sometimes those are the worst of men, the ones who have known God but fell away. I think also of Job who once was very close to God, but came into a severe situation in the hand of the enemy. At that time he wasn’t so easy to deal with. His 3 friends finally gave up trying to (fix?) reconcile or restore him to God. At first they had little to go on and began to prod around. Later when a problem should have become much more evident to them, they quit.
I can’t explain the giants. I don’t know why they were or how many they were. I trust they would have bled like anyone else if they would have been cut.
Can I have the address for “just cookies” so I can order 10 dozen sugar cookies?
On the Subject of UFOs from a Christian Perspective, Dr. Hugh Ross of http://www.reasons.org has written a book called “Lights in the Sky and Little green Men” Which should be very helpful in any research in this area
Eric
I have no interest at all in aliens, i havnt watched one episode of star trek either. There is some dispute as to what the word “nephilim” means, some say its “fallen ones” some say its giants so thats where a Hebrew Scholars comes in handy, of Course we have Dr Brown but Dr Heiser has spent years on this topic and written a book based on the subject. The topic has ramification into doctrine and theology, It would shed light on the Gen 6 incident.
I’ve seen some “theories on Nephilim as aliens and I have to say… It’s a real strech there guys.
Now UFOs as a manifestation of interdimentional beings (Demons) I can wrap my head around… Acornding to reaserch done By Dr. Ross (a Christian Astronomer mentioned in my other post) Most RUFO sightings occur around areas that are frequently host to occultic practices and most people who are “Abducted” are or have been delving into the occult.
There is a lot of crazy stuff out there that attaches itself to the nephilim so it would be good to have two bible scholars talk us through what the text says and doesn’t say in the original language for those of us how cannot read Hebrew, and also tell us what the early Church line of thought was on this subject and how it changed. So we can discern for ourselves. just my thoughts.
I really appreciated Dr. Brown’s fairness in regard to President Obama’s statements re: the Sermon on the Mount. I agree with Dr. Brown’s assessment. Some people have taken Pres. Obama’s statements and twisted them all out of proportion, really reading something very cynical in them. While we can’t know the Pres.’s motivation, it is true that few agencies could live up to the ideals expressed in the Sermon on the Mount, and Jesus’ views are truly radical compared to some watered-down versions of ‘mainstream’ Christianity.
Ray,
I read somewhere (?) that the expression you used,
“that there were godly men such as Enoch at that time when men called upon the name of the Lord.”
that the expression means the opposite. That at that time men began to “curse” the name of the Lord.
Anybody?
I’ve had two UFO sightings. One was quite close. I was sixteen, and taking a break on the balcony of an apartment where my group was meeting. I first heard a quiet whirring sound above me, like a machine. I looked up, and saw the circle of a ship whose edge was just overhanging the roofline. I watched as it floated free and was hovering just above. At that point, I could completely see the underside of its round shape. Then it turned sharply downward, revealing a black series of windows all around the “brim” if you will. These windows soon displayed some sort of letters/characters in white light, but they were not the English alphabet. I soon realized I could not read the “message.” Years later, when I saw the Russian alphabet, I thought back to that scene and noticed a similarity, but I still don’t know for certain. Anyway, back to the balcony…I ran inside to tell my friends to come out fast if they wanted to see a “flying saucer”, but oddly enough, they all hesitated. Finally one accompanied me back out. The ship was completely gone, though. I ran down the stairs thinking I could see it leaving in the sky, but it was totally out of sight. We weren’t that far from a major city street, and for years I’ve wondered why that saucer-shaped ship did not stop traffic. I still don’t have an answer to why it was not visible to many more people.
The other sighting was at a farther range, but this time it was also viewed by at least three other people who were in the backyard when the six or seven ships came up, quickly changed course, arranged themselves in a pyramidal shape, such as:
*
* *
* * * *
and then blinked out of view. (Not sure if the asterisks will maintain their shape once I submit this comment — if they don’t, they are arranged with one at the top, two underneath, and three or four directly below, so the whole effect is a triangular arrangment of ships)
I’ve no explanation for any of what I saw, nor what others have seen, but I believe people when they describe UFO’s because of my own experiences. When you see something, you know you saw it. I don’t dwell on it much, and I’m not sure about all the various theories out there, but I would like to have a solid answer someday.
I asked one minister about it in a church I used to go to and he said that people who are saved (meaning, btw, in his church only) don’t see UFO’s. That “explanation” did not ring true to me. I think people are more dismissive when they haven’t seen anything. Whatever they are, they have a reality of their own — that I’m sure of.
Yup, the asterisks all moved to the left; but again, the whole arrangement is supposed to be fully triangular.
When we look into the sky it stirs our imagination. When we talk about a UFO it still means it is an unidentified flying object. By that definition it could be an angel, a weather baloon, a cloud, a meteor, or a craft from this planet or another. Out of this list angels and crafts from another world stir our imagination the most. I have left out another possibility, an evil spirit. Now if you don’t believe in creatures from other planets but you do believe in a spiritual realm, then if something is unidentified – some might be fearful of demonic forces in the air and call to mind Ephesians 2:2 which references the “prince of the power of the air.” The fact of the matter is when we don’t know peoples imaginations run wild. What we want to believe may not be what is there. On the other hand, if it is possible, although unlikely, we hope against the odds that the encounter we see is the real thing. If someone can get struck by lightening, or win the lottery, why can’t one of these UFO citings be with something like an alien from outer space we reason. Now for a little bit of speculation. I think scientist like Hugh Ross would argue that the conditions for life in the universe are so fine tuned that our existance on earth is really one of improbability. Hence, life really was designed. The chances of life on other worlds, given our present knowledge is unlikely. Let me offer an alternative view. Even if life is designed, and our present state of knowledge might preclude the existence of other beings on other planets – consider this. God is a God of life. There was a heavenly host that was created before man. When this world was created life was not limited to man alone. There were plants, fish, animals as well as humans. Life is everywhere. If God created life in abundance on earth I don’t know why he might not have done so elsewhere in the cosmos. What is often unspoken is that the theological question is what does this have to do with the redemption drama unfolding on earth? And nobody has an answer. I have a theory that there is life on other planets, but the time to reveal that life has not come into the fullness of time for man. But I also think our quest to find life on other planets has a certain nobility. As Proverbs 25:2 says – It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
I just want to add that while people often allude to “imagination gone wild” to dismiss what others have seen, I am 100% certain that what I saw was not “imagination”…but I don’t expect to convince otherwise, because I know that until one has an experience of such, it’s more comforting to chalk it up to something else. I recognize that the devil is a master of illusion, and I don’t discount the possibility of such, either. But saucer sightings have been with us since ancient Sumer, over 3000 years ago. This is not simply an ‘end of the age’ phenomenon.
I believe all UFO sightings are demonic. This so called UFO activities comes directly from the kingdom of darkness.
Cliff what you said from Dr Ross just confirms what I have always believed.
Praise Jesus forever!!!
“I believe all UFO sightings are demonic.”
I believe you’re incorrect, though sincerely motivated. Some are, some are not.
Time will make it plain.
I am not at all opposed to the interdimensional aspect of heavenly beings. In fact, the entire Old Testament and some instances in the New, are replete with the supernatural. Take the story in IIKings where Elisha has the Lord open the eyes of the one who was afraid of the army gathered against them:
2Ki 6:15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? :16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that [be] with us [are] more than they that [be] with them. :17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain [was] full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
It seems to me that the Lord’s host was there the whole time, but, it wasn’t until their eyes were opened that they could see them. And then, of course, we have the Lord himself, appearing in the midst of the Apostles as they were discussing His resurrection. In our present bodies we can’t just appear and disappear, but, it seems that in our resurrected bodies something changes. You can’t read the Bible without encountering the supernatural.
“You can’t read the Bible without encountering the supernatural.” Very true. Sadly, I’ve observed that there is a kind of natural/material-minded Christianity in America which zealously denies the SUPER-natural, except when it is being consigned to the devil. It’s a bit of a wonder that those who believe in that way even accept the reality of a Holy SPIRIT.
Even hard-headed physicists recognize several dimensions. Invisibility happens. But just because something can’t be (generally) seen doesn’t mean it isn’t SO. And just because it is SO and yet invisible doesn’t automatically mean it is also simply evil.
Ok some “UFO” sightings are government planes, aircrafts.
But you you believe in aliens….little green men.. I will laugh.
By the way the Holy spirit dwells in his people. He doesn’t dance in the sky for entertainment.
Focus on Jesus.
No disrepect intented, but if you did see anything in the sky and is confused as to what it is. Ask The Lord to reveal to you what it could be or mean.
God is not a God of confusion. Keep that in mind.
The Lord said, “judge nothing before the time”, so, I remain open minded. I don’t believe these to be all evil. I am simply saying that the reality of them is being used by some to promote ideas about them that turn out to have developed into an ideology that is contrary to the Lord. I don’t know what I saw.
I just know I saw it.
I’m on your side, Ruth. Either we take the Bible at face value, or, we risk loosing some things in interpretation. The book of Daniel clearly states that there are angels, much mightier in power and performance, who are battling each other in the spiritual realm. For Pete’s sake, why does that thought scare anyone? And do you think Daniel was making it up, or, that Gabriel and Michael weren’t real angels?
There seems to be a battle going on that we are not aware of.
Of course there is activity going on in the spirit ralm. All the time. Everytime I pray I ask the Lord to protect my prayers as they go up into Heaven from the kingdom of darkness so they won’t hinder my prayers. I say…Lord send your angels to protect my prayers.
Heck I’m not afraid of no devil. Why should I be? I got Christ in me.
If you saw angels in the sky. Then why don’t you just say I saw angels in the sky?
It sound like you don’t know what you seen but your hoping its something from the Lord. I’m just saying you could be witnessing demonic activity.
I said what I meant.
And you’re exactly right; I don’t know what I saw. It didn’t tell me what I was seeing, my eyes did. And, since the Lord gave me two eyes, to disallow what’s in front of me would be ridiculous. It appeared to have a definite form and dimensions, albeit, not one I was used to seeing. And, it didn’t behave like anything I had ever seen before.
Angels in the Bible appear as “men” and are not entities with glorious wings as most are used to imagining. Angels in the Bible are never described as having wings. This conception was most likely taken from Daniel, where the angel was “caused to fly swiftly”.
No missing time, no, gripped with fear. Just a sense of awe.
No one said anything about a devil, or, the Satan. You are the one presuming that they are evil and that only something called an angel is good.
How is it that we will be judging angels? Do you feel qualified to judge an angel? Yet, that’s what Scripture says, unless, I’m reading it wrong. Obviously, some angels have done some things that would require judgment.
You figure it out. Furthermore, I don’t live in a “kingdom of darkness” as you say.
I want to give a testimony that happened to me when I first became saved.
When I first accepted Jesus in my heart and as my Lord in the year 1999, I’d experienced bad anxiety and panic attacks. I had 3 small kids at the time. The mornings would be the worst time for me. I would get sick and throw up. I went through such torment in my mind. It was hell.
I suffered from anxiety and panic attacks since I was 13 yrs old. But when I came to the Lord it got worse. That is when I learned all about spiritual warfare. I never knew there were demonic spirits that attacked people. As soon as I realized that all these years of living I was going through the anxiety and panic attacks was from the kingdom of darkness. I got mad. Really angry at the devil. What right do you have I thought, to toment me like that?? That is when I learned about taking authority over satan. It wasn’t easy. However, the Lord would speak in my spirit saying I am going to strenghten you. Then one morning the Lord said to me…I am going to send the angel Micheal in your life to battle for for.
Again I was a brand new Christian at the time of all this. I asked a Christian friend of mind and said…Is there an angel in the bible name Micheal? She told me yes.
I was like yippeeee!!!! Thank you Lord. So the Lord sent the archangel michael into my life and battle the devil for me. Praise God forever.
Jesus said..I have come to set the captives free. (the Lord wasn’t kidding folks.)
Deliverance didn’t happen over night. I had to step out in faith when I left my house to go places. The anxiety caused me to have so much fear I didn’t want to leave my house. I would think a lot about Peter. If Peter could walk on that water to meet Jesus then I can do this, I can go here and there.
The Lord had freed me. I have been on fire for the Lord since.
So believe me, I know all about spiritual warfare.
When I kids would go outside and play, I’d say Lord take your angels and protect my kids from any harm. My kids are older now, as I am.
My daughter is a junior at Boston University, she is 20, my sons are 18 and 15. I still pray for them. Always will.
So folks don’t assume things, ok?
May the Lord fill you up with his peace,love, joy and especially hope.
Don’t let satan fool you, ok? Here is an example of how he works.
3 young kids were out in the field one day. They saw a vision of Mary (mother of Jesus). They called all the village people to tell them what they seen. All the people came rushing out to gaze at this vision of Mary. There was no fear at all from this vision of Mary, only excitement. So, til this very day this is why the Catholic Church holds Mary at a high esteem the way the do. They believe the vision of Mary seen by thoses people was a sign from God.
Of course this is a lie from hell. God does not want us to worship Mary.
Satan comes as an angel of light. Beware and be wise.
I am aware of those verses in the Bible, as you said, “Satan comes as an angel of light.” Do you see know, the quandary? We’re left asking ourselves; which is it? Of course we need spiritual discernment. Someone who has never experienced anything remotely similar to what Dr. Brown has; (concerning being touched on the shoulder by what he knew to be something real, and then, coming down with double pneumonia), their first reaction might be, “yeah, right”.
The Scripture also says we are not to bring “railing accusations against Satan”. Which, not even the angels did. Their answer in disputing about the body of Moses, is to say, “The Lord rebuke you. So, which is it? I don’t know. I’ve never had to bind a demonic spirit, I merely say, “The Lord rebuke you in Jesus name.” I mean, I say that to myself. Like when I’ve drifted into unkind thoughts, or such. And, it works. Although I’ve never been around someone possessed with evil spirits, I have been around those who “exuded” something that vexed my spirit and I thought better than to spar with them.
I’m not at all sure, after reading about Dr. Heiser and many things he says, and his various hypotheses, that he can even answer to this phenomenon. Apparently he’s not speaking from experience. (?) Hopefully, he can shed some light on it.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see, if he does the interview with Dr. Brown, exactly what it is he’s purporting.
I’m over it already and I’m finished talking about it.
Let’s move on.
Ok Shelia
God Bless you
One more thing…Jesus has given us all authority to cast out demons and heal the sick.
Luke 9:1 When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases
Mark 16:17, “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils…”
If you like to read…check this out
http://www.greatbiblestudy.com/spiritual_authority.php
Debbie, your own personal experience, sacred and personal – special to you – is your own and no one can or does presume to take it from you.
Sheila and I have been communicating that seeing something highly unusual – beyond normal – has been one of our own experiences, and we know that what we observed did have a reality of its own, even though it was quite extra-ordinary.
I don’t believe, Debbie, that what I saw that day from the balcony of that apartment complex was in fact “evil.” But just because I can’t name it or explain it fully and am not an “expert” on it doesn’t mean I am “confused,” and therefore, deceived by Satan. There are a lot of unexplainable phenomena in life, don’t you agree? Even people who lead Spirit-filled lives have burning questions.
I would caution you against jumping to judgments in general, but also specifically in the matter of blanketly condemning UFOlogy. The declaration that “all UFO sightings” are “evil” or ridiculous and are all about “little green men” when neither Sheila or I have even used that term in describing our experiences means only that your imagination would add that.
I’ll repeat that I do think evil ET activity does exist. (ET just means extra-terrestrial, or from something other than terra, earth) But I’m certain that not everything extra-terrestrial or supernatural is evil! That should, in fact, be pretty obvious. We still have to discern between what is good and what is evil, even in that realm.
It’s pretty impossible for us to judge another’s experience without extensive knowledge of it. I trust God to judge all things, because He sees and knows all.
As Christians, we don’t always have to come to conclusions. Some things are OK to remain unknown until such a time as we are informed by our Lord. It’s okay to say we don’t know something. We can learn certain truths, and embrace them completely, but if we are honest, we should admit that there are always going to be subjects in which there are areas we simply don’t know enough about, and there’s no shame in just admitting that.
UFO sightings are not from the Lord. case closed.
“The devil and his demons can, according to the literature, manifest themselves in almost any form, and can physically imitate anything from angels to horrifying monsters with glowing eyes. Strange objects and entities materialize and dematerialize, just as the UFOs and their splendid occupants appear and disappear, walk through walls, and perform other supernatural feats.” John Keel