I did not hear the show yet, but what do you believe Dr. Brown? is our exact number of days already in stone? or was David’s phrase symbolic? Thanks.
Jeff — foreknown but not predetermined.
Psalm 91:16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
Both, for obedience and usefulness to the Kingdom can prolong days (case in point, Vernon Grounds), and sin can cut them short (case in point, Jimi Hendricks, who lived for pleasure as a kind of ignitive flare for a short season of fleshly intensity).
This is a very difficult theme which I’ve thought about many times before. If, as the NT says, that even the hairs on our heads are numbered, how could our days not be numbered? In Ecc., it says that there is a time and a season to every purpose under heaven. I think it was Peter, Paul and Mary that did that song… Some verses say that the wicked seem to prosper while the righteous are slain all the day long. And then, in other instances the righteous are guaranteed good things, “until” they put forth their hand to do that which is evil! In the NT, again, it says that “if” you continue walking according to the Lord’s “way”, not getting waylaid to the left or the right, you’ll be fine. But, “if” you begin to smite your fellow man, and get off track, you will be appointed with the hypocrites, and suffer God’s wrath. So, does God know the end of us, from our beginning? Many scriptures definitely support that He knows the end of all things from the beginning. But, is our “walk” with Him “predetermined”? I don’t think it is.
One of your callers had mentioned the years of man as being threescore and ten, and, perhaps, by strength they may be eighty years. Yet, the same verse says that those years are spent for labour and pain. Also, in the same Psalm, 90, it says, “For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.” Since the days of the Patriarchs, God said that we will not live any more than 120 years at the most. God being outside of space and time as we know it, and inhabiting eternity; and telling the end from the beginning, I would say, yes, He knows the number of our days. Does He know we will do things that will “cut our lives short?” How could He not know? How could the One who stretched out the heavens and measured the oceans in His hands, not know? We could go further and say, that everything we are living has already been finished. Some say we are living in the here and now, but, everything is already finished as God planned. And there are some scriptures that might be used to support that idea. However, we have to acknowledge and understand that God gave us free will and that we are determining our own destiny and ultimate fate. We know that certainly, God specifically says that He called some prophets and other persons from their mother’s womb. And that Jesus was from “everlasting” and God appointed the times and the places to bring about His will and His plan. And that Paul was a “chosen vessel” to bring salvation to the Gentiles. I believe Paul to be “the” most remarkable person in all of the Bible. I wouldn’t be surprised if Paul was one of the candlesticks standing before the God of the whole earth! Dr. Brown could probably answer that one. (?) Anyway, back to the topic of predetermined, or, not? I would say, no. Because if we were not “free to choose” whether to love the Lord our God with all of our hearts, and soul and strength; and our neighbors as ourselves, it wouldn’t truly be love at all. It would all be contrived by a God who loves Himself more than us and that’s not the God I serve. The God I serve loved me first and gave His life for me! He set me free from my sins that would have eternally separated me from His love and mercy. One thing I do know is this: Ecc 8:17 “Then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know, he will never find it.”
Dr. Brown talked about how we glorify our bodies and it’s true that much time and money is spent on this pursuit. And there are scientists looking diligently into the secret of longevity, as if there were some “secret” gene or formula that could reverse aging and stop the ultimate deterioration of the thing that clothes our souls. I believe it doesn’t matter one bit how we die, the only thing that matters is “how we live.” God, in His profound mercy, “blessed” us by cutting short our days. When our first Mother, Eve, failed to pass the temptation in the garden, and Adam with her, God placed the Cheribims in Eden surrounding the “tree of life”, so that we would not eat of the tree of life in our sinful, fallen state and live forever separated from God. In fact, Messiah is shown forth in the slaying of an innocent animal, the shedding of blood, in order to cover our sin of disobedience. God’s plan of redemption was put in place “immediately” upon our exercising of our free will. Gen. 3:22 “and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Christ is “the way” to the tree of life. Christ is “the truth” as opposed to “the lie” that led us to fall. And Christ is “the life” that we forfeited because of sin. Praise the Lord and bless His Name forever!
For the Son of God to give up His Glory that He had with our Father, and clothe His Majesty in sinful flesh for me and you; it literally brings me to my knees! When I think of Jesus’ sacrifice and His agony in the garden of Gethsemane, when, just like us, he “feared” death, literally sweating great drops of blood; how can it not move you to tears? I can’t begin to express how much I love the One who took my place. To even consider the extreme duress He experienced in “knowing” He would soon suffer humiliation, and people would spit on Him and pluck out His beard; and He would endure a scorging that would cut so deep that He could see and count his bones, be struck on the face, mocked by those He was dying to save, and then made to carry the cross beam to which He would be affixed to the tree that He would be crucified and hung on! It cuts me so deeply in my heart that I can’t read Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 without feeling the weight of my sins that were placed on my Savior. Jesus knew all the prophesies concerning what He was to suffer, yet, being found in the image of sinful flesh–clothed with “our” sins, He “feared God” and was heard when He prayed, “if there is any other way, let this cup pass from me.” “Yet, not my will, but, thine be done.” And so, it was done; on earth as it is done in Heaven. And those of us who have accepted his offering of Himself as the propitiation for our sins, will one day be clothed in glorious immortality, like our Savior. For though we are still clothed in sin, there will soon come the day when the Lord will pronounce: “Be thou Holy for I am Holy”! And in the twinkling of an eye it will be fulfilled. I believe this is what the Apostle speaks of when he assures us of the reward for our faith. That God had “before ordained” that all who believe in Jesus were “predetermined” to receive salvation. It is not our choices that are predetermined, but, rather our “salvation” through Jesus, our Messiah. Still boggles my mind!
In the final analysis, I don’t look for my reward in this life. It’s true that I’ve been greatly blessed by the Lord. Not so much by the yardstick the world might use, but, I’ve had miraculous events happen in my life and the Lord has opened up His word to me in a way I wouldn’t have believed when I first applied myself to know Him. Yet, we’ve all seen that bad things happen to good people, and we see the wicked go unpunished and justice is turned around backwards. So, there has to be another dimension to the promises He made to the righteous. And the punishment of the wicked is still in store for them also. We are “all” eternal beings, and we will each spend eternity in one of two places. But, it is the hope of those who lives are hidden in Christ to live in peace and communion once more with God. But, the expectation of those who reject God’s offer, well, personally, I would rather not see anyone’s ashes under the soles of my feet! Let’s get serious about spreading the love around! Let’s call on the Power of the Lord to help us plant as many seeds as possible, so, that when the Lord of the Harvest comes He can say, “Well done thou good and faithful servant.” “Well done!”
I recently purchased a DVD from Dr. Brown’s ministry and I challenge all you to give at least 10.00 by Friday to further the Gospel!
I did not hear the show yet, but what do you believe Dr. Brown? is our exact number of days already in stone? or was David’s phrase symbolic? Thanks.
Jeff — foreknown but not predetermined.
Psalm 91:16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
Both, for obedience and usefulness to the Kingdom can prolong days (case in point, Vernon Grounds), and sin can cut them short (case in point, Jimi Hendricks, who lived for pleasure as a kind of ignitive flare for a short season of fleshly intensity).
This is a very difficult theme which I’ve thought about many times before. If, as the NT says, that even the hairs on our heads are numbered, how could our days not be numbered? In Ecc., it says that there is a time and a season to every purpose under heaven. I think it was Peter, Paul and Mary that did that song… Some verses say that the wicked seem to prosper while the righteous are slain all the day long. And then, in other instances the righteous are guaranteed good things, “until” they put forth their hand to do that which is evil! In the NT, again, it says that “if” you continue walking according to the Lord’s “way”, not getting waylaid to the left or the right, you’ll be fine. But, “if” you begin to smite your fellow man, and get off track, you will be appointed with the hypocrites, and suffer God’s wrath. So, does God know the end of us, from our beginning? Many scriptures definitely support that He knows the end of all things from the beginning. But, is our “walk” with Him “predetermined”? I don’t think it is.
One of your callers had mentioned the years of man as being threescore and ten, and, perhaps, by strength they may be eighty years. Yet, the same verse says that those years are spent for labour and pain. Also, in the same Psalm, 90, it says, “For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.” Since the days of the Patriarchs, God said that we will not live any more than 120 years at the most. God being outside of space and time as we know it, and inhabiting eternity; and telling the end from the beginning, I would say, yes, He knows the number of our days. Does He know we will do things that will “cut our lives short?” How could He not know? How could the One who stretched out the heavens and measured the oceans in His hands, not know? We could go further and say, that everything we are living has already been finished. Some say we are living in the here and now, but, everything is already finished as God planned. And there are some scriptures that might be used to support that idea. However, we have to acknowledge and understand that God gave us free will and that we are determining our own destiny and ultimate fate. We know that certainly, God specifically says that He called some prophets and other persons from their mother’s womb. And that Jesus was from “everlasting” and God appointed the times and the places to bring about His will and His plan. And that Paul was a “chosen vessel” to bring salvation to the Gentiles. I believe Paul to be “the” most remarkable person in all of the Bible. I wouldn’t be surprised if Paul was one of the candlesticks standing before the God of the whole earth! Dr. Brown could probably answer that one. (?) Anyway, back to the topic of predetermined, or, not? I would say, no. Because if we were not “free to choose” whether to love the Lord our God with all of our hearts, and soul and strength; and our neighbors as ourselves, it wouldn’t truly be love at all. It would all be contrived by a God who loves Himself more than us and that’s not the God I serve. The God I serve loved me first and gave His life for me! He set me free from my sins that would have eternally separated me from His love and mercy. One thing I do know is this: Ecc 8:17 “Then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know, he will never find it.”
Dr. Brown talked about how we glorify our bodies and it’s true that much time and money is spent on this pursuit. And there are scientists looking diligently into the secret of longevity, as if there were some “secret” gene or formula that could reverse aging and stop the ultimate deterioration of the thing that clothes our souls. I believe it doesn’t matter one bit how we die, the only thing that matters is “how we live.” God, in His profound mercy, “blessed” us by cutting short our days. When our first Mother, Eve, failed to pass the temptation in the garden, and Adam with her, God placed the Cheribims in Eden surrounding the “tree of life”, so that we would not eat of the tree of life in our sinful, fallen state and live forever separated from God. In fact, Messiah is shown forth in the slaying of an innocent animal, the shedding of blood, in order to cover our sin of disobedience. God’s plan of redemption was put in place “immediately” upon our exercising of our free will. Gen. 3:22 “and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Christ is “the way” to the tree of life. Christ is “the truth” as opposed to “the lie” that led us to fall. And Christ is “the life” that we forfeited because of sin. Praise the Lord and bless His Name forever!
For the Son of God to give up His Glory that He had with our Father, and clothe His Majesty in sinful flesh for me and you; it literally brings me to my knees! When I think of Jesus’ sacrifice and His agony in the garden of Gethsemane, when, just like us, he “feared” death, literally sweating great drops of blood; how can it not move you to tears? I can’t begin to express how much I love the One who took my place. To even consider the extreme duress He experienced in “knowing” He would soon suffer humiliation, and people would spit on Him and pluck out His beard; and He would endure a scorging that would cut so deep that He could see and count his bones, be struck on the face, mocked by those He was dying to save, and then made to carry the cross beam to which He would be affixed to the tree that He would be crucified and hung on! It cuts me so deeply in my heart that I can’t read Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 without feeling the weight of my sins that were placed on my Savior. Jesus knew all the prophesies concerning what He was to suffer, yet, being found in the image of sinful flesh–clothed with “our” sins, He “feared God” and was heard when He prayed, “if there is any other way, let this cup pass from me.” “Yet, not my will, but, thine be done.” And so, it was done; on earth as it is done in Heaven. And those of us who have accepted his offering of Himself as the propitiation for our sins, will one day be clothed in glorious immortality, like our Savior. For though we are still clothed in sin, there will soon come the day when the Lord will pronounce: “Be thou Holy for I am Holy”! And in the twinkling of an eye it will be fulfilled. I believe this is what the Apostle speaks of when he assures us of the reward for our faith. That God had “before ordained” that all who believe in Jesus were “predetermined” to receive salvation. It is not our choices that are predetermined, but, rather our “salvation” through Jesus, our Messiah. Still boggles my mind!
In the final analysis, I don’t look for my reward in this life. It’s true that I’ve been greatly blessed by the Lord. Not so much by the yardstick the world might use, but, I’ve had miraculous events happen in my life and the Lord has opened up His word to me in a way I wouldn’t have believed when I first applied myself to know Him. Yet, we’ve all seen that bad things happen to good people, and we see the wicked go unpunished and justice is turned around backwards. So, there has to be another dimension to the promises He made to the righteous. And the punishment of the wicked is still in store for them also. We are “all” eternal beings, and we will each spend eternity in one of two places. But, it is the hope of those who lives are hidden in Christ to live in peace and communion once more with God. But, the expectation of those who reject God’s offer, well, personally, I would rather not see anyone’s ashes under the soles of my feet! Let’s get serious about spreading the love around! Let’s call on the Power of the Lord to help us plant as many seeds as possible, so, that when the Lord of the Harvest comes He can say, “Well done thou good and faithful servant.” “Well done!”
I recently purchased a DVD from Dr. Brown’s ministry and I challenge all you to give at least 10.00 by Friday to further the Gospel!
Your Sister in Yeshua,