The Preexistence of the Son

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604 Comments
  1. Chuck,
    Just because my canon might be different, doesn’t mean I’m not Christian – the Catholics and Ethiopians’ canons are not the same as your’s is, but they are Christians, still.

    All,
    1. Peter [http://bible.cc/1_peter/1-11.htm] says that the prophets in the Old Testament were operating by the “Spirit of CHRIST”; however, when you look in the Old Testament Scriptures, all you read is “the Spirit of YHWH” – therefore, he is implying that “the Spirit of Christ” = “the Spirit of God”; confirming Yeshua’s Godship, for anyone who believes NT Scripture.

    2. “…and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the Temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.”
    -2 Thessalonians 2:4

    There are many parallels between darkness & light [Psalm 139:12](e.g.: there is the parallel for the Phylacteries: the Jews were to wear them on the forehead and hand; satan has the ‘mark of the beast’ on the forehead and hand; etc.,); I believe the figure in the darkness which correlates to Yeshua in the Light would be the False Messiah / man of lawlessness / son of perdition (whom the Jews will receive as Messiah, at a future date [John 5:43]).

    Now, Yeshua’s parallel is going to proclaim HIMSELF to be at the level of “God”; this should shed some light on the mystery of Yeshua’s Godship.

    If that man of lawlessness is correlative to Yeshua, wouldn’t he have an authority he submits to (satan), as his god?
    How can someone IN SUBMISSION be “God”? Wouldn’t the one claiming to be “God” have to be the LEADER of the darkness – satan? Maybe that is an incorrect assumption; a misunderstanding of the way things work with God.
    The man of lawlessness is IN SUBMISSION to his (false) god, satan (satan, who gives OF his throne and authority to his heirs [Rev 13]).

    Wouldn’t he proclaim satan to be ‘god’ (of course, neither of them are; however, the darkness forms similarly to the light)? He does [Daniel 11:38]! And the false messiah is “strong, but not by his own strength” [Dan 8:24], just as Yeshua was strong, but not by His own strength [Zech 4:6] – and both, in their own ways, are claiming or are being proclaimed as God.

    Therefore, I have no problem with Yeshua being both God AND submitted to His God.

    Just some things to think about.

  2. I wonder if Jesus will confess that he is either unitarian or trinitarian. I’m wondering if he would clothe himself with either of those two garments.

    I suppose he might confess to being three fold in nature, being all about who he really is, (the Son of God, the Son of man), the Father, and the holy Spirit, for both God the Father and the Spirit of the Father dwell in him fully. And isn’t his life all about the Father, the Spirit, and who he (Jesus) is, as he always is, and was supposed to be? And hasn’t he always been just as he was supposed to be?

    It’s clear enough to me that he existed before the creation.

    There are some that want to read “foreknowledge only” into many verses, as if he did not exist in any way other than in the foreknowledge of God, but I do not believe the scripture is supposed to he handled that way.

    I’ve referred to them as “foreknowlege only” Christians at times. I think they are missing out on something.

    I’ve talked to some who can explain the meaning of the word “through” but couldn’t seem to make any practical use of the word at some times when it was used.

    I wonder if they ever walked through a doorway that didn’t exist, or if they ever ate some kind of food that didn’t exist.

    I believe God created all things through Jesus Christ as the scripture teaches.

  3. To those who believe that the Logos had no personal preexistence:

    If God was a person, and the Logos was “what God was,” why would the Logos not be a person as well?

    How do you explain verse 10: “He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him, but the world did not know him”? If the world came into existence through Jesus, then Jesus must have an actual, and not merely metaphorical, preexistence.

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