Dr. Brown Answers Your Questions (including Torah for Today? Is the Church Spiritual Israel? and What about Being Slain in the Spirit?)

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131 Comments
  1. Tr.,

    Concerning the latest questions…I accept what the Torah says. As far as intricacies about moving certain things or how far one can carry something or what distance one may travel I know that Messiah did not overstep the boundaries of Torah or teach others to go beyond what Torah teaches. I believe that He lived and taught even the least of the commandments as it says in Matthew 5:19 I attempt to do the same.

    I do not think that to pick up a stick is breaking Shabbat, but gathering a bunch of sticks and carrying them home is. Baking bread would be prohibited. Lifting a slice of bread to ones mouth is not work, popping grain into ones mouth is not work. Leading ones animals to water is not prohibited. Healing is not prohibited. Running ones business or reaping ones field would be prohibited. Charging for healing on Shabbat would be prohibited.

    Do you accept these scriptures?

    Romans 8
    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    1 John 3
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin (transgression of the law).
    6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth (habitually transgresses the law) hath not seen him, neither known him.
    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    8 He that committeth sin(habitually transgresses the law) is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    Shalom

  2. I certainly accept those scr.s.
    Please answer what I asked before.
    Brother Bo, do you believe if someone carried something heavy on the Shabbat that it constitues work, and shouldn’t be done on Shabbat? For example if someone carried a table, or picked up a sofa, ect. I do believe that is considered to be work, especially if they move those things from one house to another. What do you think?

  3. Another part of my last post should be that if someone carries many sticks it would be heavy. So is carrying anything heavy against the will of Eloheem/God on the Shabbat?

  4. Tr.,

    Just tell me where you are going with this.

    I am guessing you are going to bring up the man that Y”Shua told to take up his bed and walk, but I could be wrong. But if I am correct, you must know that his bed was probably no more than a mat and could have been just a bed roll.

    Does the violation come at 1 pound or 10 pounds or maybe 100 pounds? Does it come in carrying the item 10 paces or 1000 paces? Does it matter if the two houses are 10 feet apart or 200 feet apart? What scripture will you point to that declares the maximum weight one can carry or distance one can walk on the Sabbath?

    So you agree that the Spirit will not lead anyone to sin and that sin is the transgression of the Torah. So, you must agree that the spirit will not lead anyone to transgress the Torah. Right?

    Shalom

  5. The Torah(law) states this. “See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. Shemot/Ex. 16:29″ That means that anyone that goes outside on the Shabbat is not doing this law, everyone is supposed to stay inside except for to go to the Temple, if they go outside for any other reason other than that they are going against this command.
    Also if someone goes outside to pick up anything no matter how heavy it is that is work, that is part of the Torah letter of the law. You know how I know that is the Torah/law? Look at this scr.
    “Or have you not read in the Torah(law), how that on the Shabbat(sabbath) days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Matt. 12:5″ One thing this is refering to is the kohenim/priests had to do alot of physical work that was righteous in Eloheem/God’s sight in doing that they profaned the Shabbat, because they were supposed to stop working in Shabbat, but there was the other parts of Torah that explained it was necessary for them to profane the Shabbat, and it was even Eloheem/God’s will for them to do it, so they were blameless. The law is very specific, the law is the letter of the law, and the part about them doing the physical difficult labor on Shabbot is the Ruach/Spirit of the Torah. My point is that the Ruach/Spirit leads, in other words whatever Ruach/Spirit wants do it, it is righteous. Sometimes in order to accomplish His will, He goes against one aspect of Torah to establish another aspect of Torah.

    According to Torah/law the person who picked up the bed did so against Torah(law) no matter how much it weighed. That is also what is being explained with this scr.
    “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. Numbers 15:32-35” No matter how much the picking up of sticks or anything that is not relevant is wrong according to Law, no matter how much is lawfully wrong to do according to Torah(law). Gather the Manna on Shabbat was wrong to do, no ammount of gather of Manna was allowed according to Torah/law.

    Please stop and take a look at David eating the kadosh bread, it was wrong according to Torah/Law, but just like the kohenim/priests profane the Shabbat, and be blameless, so also David could go against Torah/Law and profane that part of Torah, and be blameless. Also Luke 6:1 does show that Messiah was using the Ruach/Spirit of the Torah/Law, it was not proper according to Torah/Law for them to gather on Shabbat, but they were still blameless even though they profaned the Shabbat. “And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands. Luke 6:1”

    Do you see the David and his men didn’t have a right according to Torah/Law to eat the showbread? They did have a right to do that according the Ruach/Spirit though.

  6. Tr.,

    You are reading into the passages. There is a context to all you quote. The manna was a very specific incident. He told them to remain in their place because they were going outside the camp to pick up manna. There is not general Torah law to remain in ones house/tent. The word for place is a broad term that is even translated country. The likely meaning is to stay in the camp. With a camp of around 2-3 million people it is quite a walk to get out. He had specifically told them not to gather on the Sabbath. The issue of the sticks is one of presumptuous sin. He was doing something that he knew was wrong. Any spirit that leads us to go against the written word of YHWH is suspect.

    It does not say that they were blameless, it says that they were guiltless. NO TORAH VIOLATION! If you want to continue to agree with the Pharisees it is your prerogative. I will agree with Y’Shua that it was not a violation of Shabbat to carry a bed roll or pluck grain and eat it. I will accept His interpretation that there is no violation in walking to synagogue on Sabbath.

    Please answer this…Did Y’Shua break the Torah or instruct men to break it?

    If He did, He is not Messiah. The spirit of anti-messiah is at work leading people to break Torah. The Spirit of truth always upholds Torah for Y’Shua declared that YHWH’s word is truth and that the Spirit would lead us into all truth. If one thinks otherwise they are deceived into hearing and not doing. Many are deceived into thinking that those that do unrighteousness are righteous by the spirit of error.

    The Pharisees accused Y’Shua of breaking Sabbath when he told the man to take up his bed. They also accused him of blasphemy. Do you believe this too? Will the Spirit lead us to blaspheme? Why wouldn’t He if He leads us to break Sabbath? The commandments/ideas/doctrines of men have clouded our thinking so that we agree with the accusations of the Pharisees instead of believing Messiah when He said that He didn’t come to teach against the Torah.

    John 5
    18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

    John 10
    33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

    John 10
    36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

    They said He broke the Sabbath…they said He blasphemed. I do not believe them. They interpreted the scripture according to their man made doctrines. If we believe them, we are doing the same thing that they did…falsely accusing the innocent. If we really know what “I desired mercy and not sacrifice” means, we would not accuse the Innocent One or the Apostles of breaking the Torah.

    Acts 6
    11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
    12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
    13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
    14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.

    It is false witnesses that say that Y’Shua would change the Torah. It is false witnesses that say that the early believers spoke contrary to the Torah.

    I would advise that we not agree with the Scribes and Pharisees and false witnesses. I would advise that we listen to the Spirit that agrees with the Word, not the ones that lead us to violate Torah.

    Shalom

  7. I am studying the two Torah Hebrew Words in the scr., as they both would shed some light on what is spoken about. The specific one you are talking about with the scr. “See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. Shemot/Ex. 16:29″ The second Hebrew Word for place, can mean a specific place, spaciously, or in a limited capacity. If I am incorrect with my thought of the word specifically in this circumstance to mean staying in the house according to Torah. Then if I am wrong I confess it as a tresspass, and ask for forgiveness for that, but the Word could mean that, there is a possibility that is what the Ruach/Spirit is meaning for that specific instance. I recognize Eloheem/God was being very strict during that time, but it is possible He was not being as strict as I thought He was in that scr.

  8. Tr.,

    Keep studying Tr.

    Just so you know I don’t leave my property on Shabbat except for very important things, like scripture study, marriages, memorial services. I try to remain in my place and keep the Sabbath Holy and restful. I would not want to end up in an a situation where I would end up working or causing others to work.

    Shalom

  9. While I am studying that, I will try to answer the other questions you gave.

    “Or have you not read in the Torah(law), how that on the Shabbat(sabbath) days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Matt. 12:5″ I looked up the Word, and the Word in Greek comes from 338 & means innocent, which can also mean guiltless, and blameless. The Aramaic Peshitta tranlated by George M. Lamsa uses the English blameless. Where do you get the idea that they were guiltless and not blameless?

  10. Tr.,

    When I look at the Greek word “anaitios” (Strongs # 338) for guiltless in Matthew 12:7 and do a search for this Greek word in the Septuagint I find that the Hebrew word “naqiy” (Strongs # 5355) is the equivalent. Here is the definition of “naqiy”:

    AV-innocent 31, guiltless 4, quit 2, blameless 2, clean 1, clear 1, exempted 1, free 1, variant 1; 44

    1) clean, free from, exempt, clear, innocent
    1a) free from guilt, clean, innocent
    1b) free from punishment
    1c) free or exempt from obligations
    2) innocent

    The word is usually translated innocent (31 out of 44 times) and guiltless next (4 out of 44 times)

    The definition of “anaitios” is:

    AV-blameless 1, guiltless 1; 2

    1) guiltless, innocent

    In one sense we are arguing semantics as blameless, innocent, and guiltless are basically synonyms. I am the one that was trying to make a difference because I thought you were trying to say that the disciples were breaking Torah but were still blameless. I was trying to make the point that they were innocent/guiltless because they were not breaking Torah.

    The main reason that I do not think that the disciples were not breaking Torah is because every time the Scribes and Pharisees accuse them or Y’Shua they have their own oral law/commandments of men in view and not the written Torah.

    As I have stated before…Y’Shua would not be a perfect sacrifice if He sinned. Transgressing the Torah is sin. Messiah is the greatest in the kingdom. To be the greatest one must do and teach all the commandment down to the least one. If He broke or taught others to break Torah He would be the least in the kingdom. (Mat. 5:19)

    Shalom

  11. Tr.,

    I have a Bible program called “Online Bible” that has an easy way to do it. I think you can download the basic version of this program for free. It may have this option. It really helps sometimes to get the full flavor of some things in the NT.

    Shalom

  12. Thanks for that info.

    Let me give you more of what Matt. 12:5 says, bascially a better English translation.
    “Or have you not read in the Torah(law), how that on the Shabbat(sabbath) days the priests in the temple profane(desecrate, pollute, cross the thresshold, trample) the sabbath, and are innocent(blameless, guiltless, clean)? Matt. 12:5″

    This shows that obeying Torah sometimes means we must trample another part of Torah, and as we do that through the leading of the RuachHakodesh(The Holy Spirit) we are blameless.

  13. Tr.,

    The priests were keeping Torah when they broke the rules of Shabbat. The people would have to do the same on Passover if it fell on Shabbat as it is work to slaughter and prepare a Lamb. The only thing that can override Torah is another aspect of Torah.

    The Spirit will not lead against Torah. The Spirit of truth leads us into all truth. The Torah is truth.

    John 16
    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
    John 17
    17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

    We must worship in Spirit and Truth not one or the other. They go together and do not contradict each other.

    John 4
    23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    YHWH even magnifies His word above His name. It doesn’t matter if He gets a bad reputation by us keeping His word.

    Psalm 138
    2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

    Shalom

  14. Dr. Brown,
    Do you believe that Jesus spoke mostly Hebrew or Aramaic? And how would that affect the rendering into Greek?
    Thanks!

  15. Blaine,

    I answer these questions in my book What Do Jewish People Think About Jesus. In short, Aramaic would have been the primary day to day language; it’s possible that some religious discussions in Jerusalem were carried on in Hebrew. Translation into Greek would not have been largely affected either way. In fact, this article addresses that very question: http://askdrbrown.org/landing_page/resources/Review%20of%20Understanding%20the%20Difficult%20Words%20of%20Jesus%20.htm

  16. This shows that obeying Torah sometimes means we must trample another part of Torah, and as we do that through the leading of the RuachHakodesh(The Holy Spirit) we are blameless.

    Just as the kohenim/priests had to trample over some parts of Torah to be righteous, so also Messiah(The Anointed One) had to trample over some areas of Torah to show forth what is the substance, in other words what is most important, the righteousness of Torah. As a matter of fact the substance is Messiah(Christ), and following Him, and abiding in Him, which may or may not involve doing areas of shadow. “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Messiah(Christ). Colossians 2:16-17” Notice Messiah is the substance in other words provides the leading, and we must follow Him, sometimes He choses to use shadow, and sometimes he doesn’t. It depends on what He is doing, and what the leading of RuachHakodoesh/The Holy Spirit is. Messiah is the substance of Shabbat(Sabbath), and the shadow of Shabbat is the natural Seventh day. Physical is inferior to the spiritual, The spiritual is the reality more so than the physical. So true Jews are in the Spiritual, whether they are in the natural or not, the determining most important factor is the Spiritual. True for Messiah too, He is The Most important Spiritual Jew, before He manifested in the flesh as a physical Jew. Notice the spiritual is most important, but the natural also does provide blessings.

  17. Tr.,

    The Spirit (spiritual) does not contradict the Torah (physical). Messiah is a blemished lamb if he broke Torah.

    Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

    Messiah said to do both the spiritual and the physical, not to fail at one to do the other. He would be a hypocrite if he taught the Pharisees to do both but didn’t do what He taught. He came to fulfill Torah not trample it.

    Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    It is hypocrisy to do the physical without the spiritual. It is gnosticism or mysticism to try to do the spiritual without the physical.

    Real things have shadows. If there is light, there is a shadow cast by the real thing and it is attached to the real. If there is light and an object doesn’t cast a shadow, it is not real. If we are in the dark then there are no shadows. If we are in the dark we do not correctly perceive the real thing if we can find it at all.

    Shalom

  18. Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

    One thing to get from that scr. is that the weighter matters of the Torah(Law) are more important to Yehoshua HaMeshiach/Jesus the Christ than the other matters of Torah. In this scr. He mentioned the part of Torah(law) that is the most important, righteous judgement, mercy, faith, distinquishing them from the lesser portion of the tithe. As a matter of fact the weighter portion of Torah(Law) is Messiah since He is chesed(righteous judgement, mercy,) and faith. Messiah and following Him corresponds to the relevant part of Torah, that the priests had to do in Matt. 12:5.

    In other words basically the kohenim/priests who did the sacrificial system were doing the more weighty portion for them at that time, it took precedence over the less important part of Torah in their case the not working on Shabbat. “Or have you not read in the Torah(law), how that on the Shabbat(sabbath) days the priests in the temple profane(desecrate, pollute, cross the thresshold, trample) the sabbath, and are innocent(blameless, guiltless, clean)? Matt. 12:5″

    The weighter part of Torah always takes precendence over the not as important part of Torah. Messiah(He is righteous judgment, mercy, kindness, love, and faith) is the weighter part of Torah that must be experienced, and known, He is the way, truth, and life. The lesser part of Torah is also a blessing.

    For example Messiah spiritually before He was even born in Mary existed spiritually, and had victory, then He was put into flesh, as a physical Israelite, and a physical Jew from the tribe of Yehudah/Judah. The spiritual existence of Him was more important than the physical manifestation, but the physical manifestation was also very important. The spiritual existence of Him can be thought of as being the prophets, and the physical manifestation of Him, can be thought of as the Torah(Law). The prophets represent what the RuachHakodesh/The Holy Spirit is chosing to do, the Torah/Law represents a concrete action that has truth, but is limited in full understanding. So the Torah/Law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Messiah(The full understanding). The Messiah is the static understanding of Torah, but also has something more, and better than just the limited understanding of what Torah is, in other words Messiah is Torah, in the way of expressing what is meant by Torah. He the Torah is the dynamic Torah, that is Torah, but is also prophets.

    Brother Bo, what you are saying is very valuable, the shadow does work along with the substance, but the substance can exist without shadow. My point is to say that He is the way, truth, and life, and sometimes He leads to do the shadow, and other times not, since He is the substance, He gets to chose, and we must listen to what His desires are. Part of listening is recognizing all of the way, and not just a part of it. He will cause the substance to be the most important part, but as we recognize that most important part then we recognize also the less important part that is still important. Notice the less important part is important, and does have profit that we experience by that important part.
    Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    Messiah is substance, and other areas are shadow. Messiah is substance, and He is a consuming fire, substance=fire. Eloheem/God is a consuming fire, and when looking at the Tanach/O.C, we see the the fire by night, and the cloud by day. The shadow=cloud, so when both are combined correctly, then the full blessing happens, to the point of defeating the last enemy which is death.

  19. TR.,

    You wrote:
    “Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay
    tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier
    matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have
    done, and not to leave the other undone.

    One thing to get from that scr. is that the weighter matters of the
    Torah(Law) are more important to Yehoshua HaMeshiach/Jesus the
    Christ than the other matters of Torah.”

    It is true that this is “one thing” to get from this passage, but the thing that is being said directly is to do both the weightier and the less weighty. Both are weighty. He does not say to do the one instead of the other. He does not say to do the one and not be concerned with the other.

    You wrote:
    “My point is to say that He is the way, truth, and life, and sometimes
    He leads to do the shadow, and other times not, since He is the
    substance, He gets to chose, and we must listen to what His desires are.”

    He gets to choose and He already chose by saying to do both. If we do not listen to his desires that He has plainly stated in the scripture quoted above we will be deceived into listening to a false spirit of lawlessness. If we won’t hear Moses and the prophets we will not hear Him telling us to obey YHWH’s Torah either.

    Luke 16
    31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

    Shalom

  20. Please read all this is complex.

    “Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay
    tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier
    matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have
    done, and not to leave the other undone.

    The weighter part of Torah always takes precendence over the not as important part of Torah. Messiah(He is righteous judgment, mercy, kindness, love, and aman(faith, trust, faithfulness, emunah(virtue)) is the weighter part of Torah that must be experienced, and known, He is the way, truth, and life. Colossians 2:16-17 works with what I just said. “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col. 2:16-17” Meshiach/Christ is the body, and the weighter matters of Torah/Law, that must be embraced, and followed. Messiah said the body/substance must be done before the other parts are done, in order for people to be accepted.

    That is why those that didn’t do Torah customs didn’t have to start doing Torah customs that are in the shadow. “Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Acts 15:19-21”

    When Messiah talked about Matt. 23:23 He couldn’t tell the people to stop doing tithing which is a part of Torah, so He was led by Eloheem/God to prepare the new, and better way, of establishing the provision that He supplies, He words show a spiritual understanding, of freedom, being established in the fullness of RuachHakodesh/The Holy Spirit. “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Colossians 2:14” So in that freedom that He brought, both those that do Torah, and those that don’t can be more blessed than before, as long as they walk in Messiah(He is righteous judgment, mercy, kindness, love, and aman(faith, trust, faithfulness, emunah(virtue)) the more weighter matters of Torah/Law. Now Messiah did show more of His perfect way, of establishing His will, through Matt. 23:23, in recognizing that the shadow(less important, not as weighty matters of Torah/Law)) are still a blessing, and important.

    I have explained Eloheem/God is a consuming fire, and that speaks also of the more weighter matters of Torah. The cloud that we see in the Tanach/O.C. is the shadow that is spoken of, and has blessings from Eloheem/God, but that cloud is lesser kavod/glory, yet He personally is a consuming fire(greater Kavod/glory). The cloud comes from Him, but He is a consuming fire. That tells us different things. The Consuming fire is the body(the substance) even Messiah, but the cloud is His shadow it is less than the fullness of who He is.
    The cloud(shadow)
    That shadow is passing away, even though it is still a blessing. Col 2:16-17.
    “In that he saith, A new covenant, he has made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13” “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Hebrews 9:14” “Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. Hebrews 10:9” “But now we are delivered from the Torah(law), that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of Ruach(Spirit), and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:6” “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the Torah(law). Hebrews 7:12” “For the Torah(law) made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto Eloheem(God). Hebrews 7:19″ In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13” The kavod/glory of Moshe was a glory that fades away in other words the cloud(shadow, the lesser kavod/glory), but the kavod/glory of Messiah is the fire(body, Messiah, greater glory). That is why after the 1,000 year reign there will not be a Temple as the scr. states. “And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. Rev. 21:22” The physical building Temple is a part of the shadow(less important) part, Messiah HaYah(Christ The Lord) is the most important part(the substance, body).

    Now again considering Matt. 23:23 Messiah did make a point that the less important part, not as weighy part, is still important, and a blessing, that represents all Torah(Law). Torah(Law) of the letter is important in various ways. One of the ways is that Messiah did come to establish all of the Torah/Law that still needs to be established. That is why He said. “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Torah(law), till all be fulfilled. Matt. 5:18” “Think not that I am come to destroy the Torah(law), or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matt. 5:17” When thinking about that last scr. we need to realize, both Torah(Law), and prophets are mentioned, which cause more understanding of what can be done, and what will be done.

    During these last times, the combination of doing as Messiah instructed in Matt. 23:23 will happen. What I am talking about is the correct combination and interconnecting of doing the weighter part, and abiding in Him, and doing the lesser part of shadow, which is also a part of Him, but is a lesser kavod/glory.

  21. Tr.,

    There will almost never be a contradiction between the weightier and the weighty matters of the law. There are some things in the law that cannot be done right now because of providence, though.

    We cannot tithe in a scriptural way because there is no Levitical priesthood and temple operating. We can still give to the poor and help the widow and orphan. The weightier matter of being generous is behind both of these things and does not stop us from doing either. It is the lack of a Levitical priesthood that keeps us from doing the one weighty matter, not a weightier matter that stops us.

    We cannot offer a lamb at the gate of the temple in Jerusalem for Passover, not because there is a weightier matter that prevents us but because there is no temple in Jerusalem. We can still keep Passover.

    The Ten commandments are all possible to do. There is no weightier matter that would preclude us for keeping them. There is no weightier matter that would hold us back from keeping Sabbath. There is no weightier matter that would stop us from celebrating the new moon or the feasts of YHWH. We mostly do not do these things because our culture does not operate on YHWH’s calendar. We are enslaved to our jobs and bosses and have entered into an agreement to work on days that YHWH tells us not to work on. We are snared by the words of our mouth, not stopped from doing YHWH’s Torah by some weightier matter in Torah. Maybe keeping our word and swearing to our own hurt is a weightier matter, but we should never have made promises that would stop us from keeping YHWH’s word.

    James 4
    13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
    14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
    15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

    We should not have gone into debt so that we now have to work on YHWH’s Shabbats to pay the bills. It is our failing to keep Torah’s principles that has put us in the position to have to break YHWH’s Torah, not some weightier matter. Our sin has us in bondage to so that we cannot keep Torah. When we are made free from sin we can keep Torah and YHWH’s Spirit gives us the power to do so.

    Romans 6
    15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
    16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
    17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
    18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
    19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

    Romans 8
    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    So, you see that the Spirit leads us to keep Torah and our sinful flesh keeps us from submitting to the Torah. Our unrenewed minds fight the idea of keeping Torah.

    If we love Him we keep His commandments. Real love is shown by keeping His commandments. Any spirit that would lead us to not keep His YHWH’s Torah is a false spirit.

    1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
    1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
    2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
    Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
    Re 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    We need to keep YHWH’s commandments and have the Testimony/faith of Y’Shua, not one or the other. They do not contradict each other. They work together in those that love YHWH and follow the Lamb wherever He goes. Worshiping in spirit and in truth is the correct way; having one nullify the other is a false way.

    The book of Hebrews shows how the Levitical Priesthood would be vanishing away…and it did, at least for now. It shows us that the new covenant will be one where YHWH’s Torah will be written on our hearts instead of on stone. We will want to do it. We won’t need the priesthood to teach us, as the Spirit will teach us how to do Torah. The new and living way is having our sins forgiven and keeping YHWH’s commandments because we love Him and having His Spirit lead us into all truth.

    It is not the weightier matters of Torah that stop us from keeping the weighty matters…it is our sinful, fleshly mind and our lustful lifestyle.

    Shalom

  22. Brother in Messiah you wrote:
    I think you misunderstand the “eye for eye…” passages if you think that Torah approves personal revenge.(Ex.21:24; Le. 24:20; De.19:21; Le.19:18)

    These passages are in the context of a civil/criminal justice system with judges, witnesses and evidence. The idea is that the punishment must fit the crime and that restitution be made to a damaged party. Beyond this, it is stated that this legal concept would cause Israel to be careful to not bear false witness. In Matthew 5 it seems that Y’Shua was addressing what was commonly “said” about getting even and not on what was written in Torah. Also, Y’Shua could be saying that we should not have to be made to do what is right by the court and that we should give more than is required. This does not negate the court or the just ruling in a restitution case. Either way He upholds Torah’s standards. He does not change or eliminate the YHWH’s instructions.

    Matt. 5:38-39 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
    This scr. shows it is applicable all the time, people that serve HaYah/The Lord correctly will not ever be allowed to physically hurt other people through physical means, if they do it is against the weighter part of Torah/Law.

  23. Brother in Messiah you said: Please answer this…Did Y’Shua break the Torah or instruct men to break it?

    If He did, He is not Messiah. The spirit of anti-messiah is at work leading people to break Torah. The Spirit of truth always upholds Torah for Y’Shua declared that YHWH’s word is truth and that the Spirit would lead us into all truth.

    I say: Messiah didn’t go against the requirements that Eloheem/God was desiring at that time, in other words the righteous requirement. For example the kohenim/priests went against Shabbat, and where blameless. Likewise David went against the Torah by eating the showbread, and He too was innocent. The Ruach/Spirit of truth considers all truth, not solely the Torah, He also considers other truth like the prophets. The Spirit of truth does exactly what is supposed to be done, because He listens to the Ab/Father, likewise Messiah listened to the Father. Those that are led by RuachHakodesh are like the wind, we don’t know where the wind is going, the wind can change directions.

  24. Tr.,

    You have a very interesting view of this. If the laws of nature were like this we would never know if we could count on gravity working or not. If this is the way YHWH actually does things, we have an unjust judge making rulings. He would be arbitrary and capricious in His dealings with each of us and be a respecter of persons, because we each would have a different standard to live by. The Torah instructs us not to do this sort of thing, so why do you think that YHWH would act this way?

    Evidently you do not see that the reason for some aspects of Torah being temporarily suspended is because of the lack of a Levitical priesthood and temple/alter. There is nothing that prevents us from keeping Shabbat and Feast days. There is nothing that would prevent us form abstaining from adultery or theft.

    Do you really think that YWHW might tell us to commit adultery? Do you really think that YHWH might ask us to murder someone? Shabbat is in the same set of 10. They are all equal. He spoke them audibly for all to hear. If He goes back on one he can go back on any of them. Do you think that YHWH asks us to break the others? Would He tell us to worship another Elohim? Would He tell us to make a graven image?

    Please answer these questions.

    Shalom

  25. Brother Bo, you said:
    You have a very interesting view of this. If the laws of nature were like this we would never know if we could count on gravity working or not. If this is the way YHWH actually does things, we have an unjust judge making rulings. He would be arbitrary and capricious in His dealings with each of us and be a respecter of persons, because we each would have a different standard to live by. The Torah instructs us not to do this sort of thing, so why do you think that YHWH would act this way?

    I say:
    His purposes for doing things are just, whatever reasons He has are just, and righteous. Eloheem/God does different things at different times to accomplish what His perfect will is, and whatever that is, is just. The Messiah has given us the standard, and part of that standard is the curse of Torah is nailed to the cross, so that we can serve Eloheem/God in His Ruach/Spirit. Gal. 3:13 Col. 2:14, another part is to recognize people can be baruk/blessed whether they do the physical shadow(Shabbat,new moon, eating kosher, ect.), or not. Part of the standard is to recognize all truth that is united, so that all of the way is embraced, that is how we have one standard.

    Brother Bo you said:
    There is nothing that would prevent us form abstaining from adultery or theft.

    Do you really think that YWHW might tell us to commit adultery? Do you really think that YHWH might ask us to murder someone? Shabbat is in the same set of 10. They are all equal. He spoke them audibly for all to hear. If He goes back on one he can go back on any of them. Do you think that YHWH asks us to break the others? Would He tell us to worship another Elohim? Would He tell us to make a graven image?

    I say:
    The new standard talks about the righteous requirements of Torah/Law, that goes along with Torah, & prophets, the two greatest commandments, also part of that standard is to not do any harm to other people. Part of that standard is an exposition on the Ten Commandments. “For this, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, you shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Romans 13:9” The righteous requirements of Torah/Law must still be done, but people that don’t want to do the shadow don’t have to, and they can still be baruk/blessed, but as I have explained some areas of the shadow provide profit, specifically if Eloheem/God desires us to do them.

    Believers in Meshiach have more than one way to obey Shabbath/Sabbath, Messiah is our rest, our Shabbat, whether we do the shadow of Shabbath/Sabbath or not. “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col. 2:16-17″ Part of the body means we worship only Eloheem/God.

    I have explained Messiah goes further than the Torah in not allowing physically harming other people. Torah allowed it in many instances, Messiah has showed physically harming other people is never correct, all wars using the body, or tools are wrong that are in the physical.

    Now we are only allowed to use the armor of righeousness and light. Eloheem/God leads His people to accomplish many different things.

  26. christian,

    Did you notice that works that we were created to walk in were specified in advance. We are no longer gentiles, but are now grafted into Israel. There is one set of rules. The ones that were before ordained that us former gentiles should walk in are the same ones that YHHW gave to Israel.

    Ephesians 2
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
    11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:…
    18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
    19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    The once foreigners that are now fellowcitizens with the saints (Israelites) have the same set of kingdom rules.

    Matthew 5
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    We know for sure that those that do not keep YHWH’s commandments (the lawless, i.e. the ones that pay no attention to Torah) will not get to eat of the tree of life/inherit eternal life. Those that neglect even the smallest commandment will be relegated to being least in the kingdom. Those that keep and teach all of YHWH’s commandments will be great in the kingdom.

    The kingdom of heaven is not about going to heaven. It is about ruling and reigning with Messiah…being a royal priesthood and a holy nation. YHWH’s requirements for holiness (being saints) are found in Torah…the before ordained works that we are to walk in. Without holiness no one will see YHWH.

    Hebrews 12
    14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

    We are not truly loving YHWH or our brother/neighbor if we are not keeping YHHW’s commandments.

    1 John 5
    2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    Faith without works is dead. Works without faith is dead. The real New Covenant is supposed to write YHWH’s Torah on our hearts and mind.

    Hebrews 8
    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

    The New Covenant is a relationship with YHWH that is so consuming that we desire to keep His commandments. We love His law. We purify ourselves as He is pure. We be holy as He is holy. We become commandment keepers instead of only being hearers of the word. It is having the faith of Y’shua and keeping YHWH’s commandments.

    We are not participating in the New Covenant if we do not have YHWH’s law written on our hearts. They are not grievous to those that have real love for YHWH and His children. And please notice that the New Covenant is to Israel. We must be grafted in to partake. There is only one law for the strangers and the home born.

    Shalom

  27. Dr Brown:
    Will you still be having the discussion with the FFOZ guys regarding Torah observance? I think you mentioned that during this program?
    Thanks!

  28. Dr Brown, I do feel there are problems in Toronto and Pensacola. Even if there is repentance, this wouldn’t justify someone shaking in a way that is not found in scripture. This is a grave concern of mine. I don’t say this to attack you, I do respect what you have done regarding the Rabbis, but I do believe there is something not right about some of the phenomenon that I have seen at Toronto.

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